Posted on 12/13/2010 1:33:08 PM PST by pinochet
I hate Julian Assange's guts, and believe he has done great harm to America. But the legal case against him is very weak, and such a case made against him by the US government would have no precedent in legal history. Last week, one dunderhead on a talk radio show I was listening to, accused Julian Assange of being a traitor to America. Apparently, the dunderhead was unaware of the fact that Assange is an Australian citizen, and not an American citizen.
Treason can only be committed by an American citizen, and not by a foreigner. Americans are obligated by law, to be loyal to their country. Foreigners are under no obligation to be loyal to America. Foreigners are under no obligation to obey American laws, when they are living in their own countries.
The perp who leaked the documents to Assange is a traitor to America, and should be jailed for a long time. But it is very hard for America to make a case against Assange, because foreigners living in foreign countries, are under no obligation to obey American laws. If an American citizen is harmed in a foreign country, he often seeks legal redress in the foreign country in which he is living, according to the laws of that country.
Receiving stolen goods?? Enemy non-combatent? OK, the last one is just silly but what besides spying (an Manning was the actual spy) could even vaguely fit?
He can not be found guilty of treason. Treason is specifically defined in the US Constitution. He probably can’t be charged with espionage, either. He only received the information others gave him. It may be that he can only be charged with receiving stolen property.
Of course, who knows what the worlds’ governments will do. There’s nothing so terrible and violent as a government caught and shown stealing and lying. Hey, Julian, watch your back!
I understand the assumption that Assange was an American. That’s because the people who hate America the most typically are themselves Americans. I thought Assange was an American, at first, for the same reason.
>>>>There is also the fact that many papers like the NY Slimes reported these things will they be charged?
That is a good question. When the New York Times published the Pentagon Papers in the 1970s, there was a stronger case for charging the Times with treason, than there is of charging Assange with esionage today. It would not be logical for them to prosecute Assange, and allow American media outlets that published the classified information to go free.
Not to my knowledge.
However, William Joyce was executed for espionage against Great Britain even though he was an American citizen living in Germany.
No. Espionage, sabotage, collusion to commit criminal murder, enemy of the state, enemy combatant, and so forth. Extreme Prejudice should be the operative phrase here.
>>>Receiving stolen goods??
If he is charged with receving stolen goods, he would be prosecuted for the crime in the country in which he is living. But he cannot be extradited to America, unless he committed the crime on American soil.
Treason, I’d say no.....espionage, Yes IMO.
Espionage?
Let’s detain him at Gitmo until we decide what to do with him.
(I’m only half kidding.)
Let’s detain him at Gitmo until we decide what to do with him.
(I’m only half kidding.)
Even McKinnon (the British hacker obsessed with finding secret UFO information, who remotely broke into US government computer systems containing sensitive data) was NOT indicted for espionage, but only for fraud involving the use of computers.
Note that foreign leaders, and those who manage foreign spy agencies have NEVER been charged with espionage, except when they happen to get caught doing it in the country that is the target of their activities (this would be rather rare.) Such persons generally do their "spying" in their own countries, indirectly using other people whom they either pay or coerce into espionage on what to the spymasters is foreign soil. Assange's actions do not rise to the level of a spymaster running agents whom he pays or coerces—and even if they did, there is no precedent for charging with espionage non-citizens who never get anywhere near the target country.
I agree - also, wouldn’t you have to be spying FOR someone, an enemy nation?
I think he is not a spy, but an enemy. President Bush said at the beginning of the war on terror, you are either with us, or with the terrorists. Assange is with the terrorists.
He’s a hacker. Hackers do get prosecuted and they do get punished. It’s just a matter of venue for Assange, so many to choose from.
In 1859, Virginia tried and convicted John Brown of treason against the commonwealth even though he did not and had never lived in Virginia. So the precedent is there...
Harpers Ferry was in Virginia at the time. It is now in West Virginia, but was part of Virginia during the raid. VA had jurisdiction in the case
The US has no jurisdiction over Assange. There is no evidence Assange was on US soil when he recived documents. Pinochet’s post explains it quite well
Glenn Beck is discussing this now.
They could charge him with 250,000 counts of receiving stolen material.
There are undoubtedly thousands of legitimate charges to make against him. Treason isn’t one. He isn’t a citizen, and has not sworn allegiance to the USA.
Bust him for 50,000 counts of espionage.
True. But how can someone with no connection to Virginia commit treason against it?
The US has no jurisdiction over Assange. There is no evidence Assange was on US soil when he recived documents. Pinochet’s post explains it quite well.
But he received classified documents belonging to the U.S. government and wrongfully taken from them. That's a criminal act regardless of where you are or your citizenship.
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