Posted on 03/29/2010 7:51:38 AM PDT by BP2
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No link yet, only from live broadcast:
In a press release just handed to Fox by the FBI, the six Michigan residents, two from Ohio, one from Indiana are charged with “seditious conspiracy.”
Reportedly, Hutaree is accused of attempted use of weapons of mass destruction. Charges range from August 2008 to today. The militia group Hutaree are said to have conspired to oppose by force the authority of the US Government.
The members viewed local, state and federal law enforcement as "the brotherhood," also known as their enemy, and have been preparing, the FBI says, to engage them in armed conflict.
According to one plan released by the FBI, the group was to kill a law enforcement officer, then during the funeral precession, hit again with IEDs to kill more LEOs.
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(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
>>Golly, gee, wonder what he was involved in - first hand?
Just helping to run the washing machine...
“COMMERCE BETWEEN MASTER AND SLAVE IS DESPOTISM”
—Thomas Jefferson
The appetite of tyranny is never far removed from the tyranny of the appetite...
Going after the local police officers doesn't fit. It's not the police who are tyrannical.
I thought the same thing. As others have said, this story stinks on several levels as does its timing.
The Patriot Act uses that definition in its statute. Of course, it’s referring to domestic situations only.
These guys are f*cked.
—The thing I see with this part of the code is that the politicians made it against the laws to exercise our God given rights spelled out in our Constitution.—
When I was a kid, sometimes, people would print copies of the Declaration of Independence, like in almanacs, noting that this was now a seditious document. I don’t know when these laws were passed, but I grew up with the impression that they came to being during the cold war...or at least were passed for the fight against communism.
Sounds like they’ve made quoting the Declaration of Independence illegal.
By the way...what’s the latest on “islamberg” up in the Catskill area of upstate NY?
You are assuming these people are guilty until proven innocent, correct?
Where in the indictment is there any reference to any specific evidence that these people were engaged in any kind of illegal activity? Show me. I'm curious as to why you have already convicted them.
My first thought-—
When will FReepers be singled out???
BTTT for very interesting history that I will read later. Thanks for posting this.
I haven't seen the video, but there's a category of weapons classified as "destructive devices." That's not limited to full-auto. Class 3 licenses.
If I can get the time off, I'd like to court watch this if it goes to trial. The arraignment was in Detroit, about 40 minutes from me.
Sedition?
Will they be charged with thought crimes?
“There is no actual description of the weapons that were supposedly in their possession that were illegal..”
I have come to the conclusion that these guys are just a bunch of idiots. They actually posted a video on YouTube that is evidence that they violated 18 U.S.C. 842 (p)(2)
Look at this video starting at the 20 second mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiUtGgxyibc
Demonstrating the use of tripwire triggered explosives while carrying rifles in the same video and scenes. That alone will get them a conviction on counts three and four of the posted indictment.
JR, have I overinvested in the tin foil?
I have no opinion on this raid one way or another--I simply do not have enough information to make a judgement. But the big picture seems to be cause for alarm.
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Definition of sedition:
se·di·tion
/sɪˈdɪʃən/ Show Spelled[si-dish-uhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.incitement of discontent or rebellion against a government.
2.any action, esp. in speech or writing, promoting such discontent or rebellion.
3.Archaic. rebellious disorder.
Clinton Administration. It was as good as a get-out-of-jail-free card.
I’m assuming they are morons, and I don’t think it very wise to vociferously support and praise morons.
I'm looking for crime statistics right now.
18 USC 2384 is colloquially known as "conspiracy to levy war against the US," and on its face, a conspiracy to blow up local cops does NOT meet the element of "against the US."
Meanwhile, check out the sister offenses, 18 USC 2383 and 18 USC 2385.
Title 18, Chapter 115 - Treason, Sedition, and Subversive Activities
Sec. 2385. Advocating overthrow of GovernmentWhoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof -
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
Several FALN members were convicted of seditious conspiracy on 18 February 1981. See Testimony of Gilbert G. Gallegos, National President, Grand Lodge, Fraternal Order of Police, on the offer of clemency by President William Jefferson Clinton to jailed members of the Puerto Rican terrorist organization, the Armed Forces of National Liberation (Spanish initials: FALN) before the Senate Committee on the Judiciary and the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, Peace Corps, Narcotics and Terrorism.
http://www.lawandsecurity.org/publications/TTRCComplete.pdf is an interesting summary of terrorism charges and convictions
My efforts at finding charging/conviction statistics are frustrating, so at this point I'm going to guess that 18 USC 2384 charges are very uncommon, as in they are filed at a rate of less than 1 per year. Other charges are more common, such as hundreds per year of material support for terrorism.
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