Posted on 06/24/2009 8:04:24 AM PDT by metmom
Within minutes, six-year-old Rubjit Thindal went from happily chatting in the back seat of the car to collapsing and dying in her father's arms.
"If we had known it was so serious, we would have called 911,'' Kuldip Thindal, Rubjit's distraught mother, said in Punjabi yesterday. "She just had a stomach ache -- she wasn't even crying.''
Rubjit was pronounced dead at hospital barely 24 hours after showing signs of a fever. Later, doctors told her parents she had the H1N1 influenza virus. She is believed to be the youngest person in Canada with the virus to have died.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.guelphmercury.com ...
If 36,000 in your words are “on the average”?
I would like the real number not an average.
I wasn’t going to post to you as you requested in post 1,638.
But since you posted to me after that request , here’s my post ...
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/331/7529/1412
Are US flu death figures more PR than science?
The first 150 words of the full text of this article appear below.
US data on influenza deaths are a mess. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) acknowledges a difference between flu death and flu associated death yet uses the terms interchangeably. Additionally, there are significant statistical incompatibilities between official estimates and national vital statistics data. Compounding these problems is a marketing of fear—a CDC communications strategy in which medical experts “predict dire outcomes” during flu seasons.
The CDC website states what has become commonly accepted and widely reported in the lay and scientific press: annually “about 36 000 [Americans] die from flu” (www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease.htm) and “influenza/pneumonia” is the seventh leading cause of death in the United States (www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm). But why are flu and pneumonia bundled together? Is the relationship so strong or unique to warrant characterising them as a single cause of death?
David Rosenthal, director of Harvard University Health Services, said, “People don’t necessarily die, per . . . [Full text of this article]
Peter Doshi, graduate student
Harvard University pdoshi@fas.harvard.edu
June 18
Seasonal Flu and 36,000 Deaths Per Year
Thirty-Six Thousand People Do Not Die Each Year from “Regular Flu” (Confirmed)
Read just about any news report on swine flu deaths, and you’ll come across a line that claims “36,000 people die each year from flu-related causes.” It sounds authoritative. It’s even a nice, round number. But where is this number coming from? And is it based on any actual science?
This statistic is being paraded around by almost everybody, as if to say that swine flu isn’t so bad because regular flu kills so many people each year anyway. The truth is that the only standard by which the CDC and WHO are quoting deaths from swine flu is if they are confirmed deaths from a particular viral strain. To them, if a death has not been confirmed in their labs, it does not count as a death from that flu.
Got that? Only “confirmed” deaths count. And they must be confirmed in a laboratory using a rigorous method of comparing samples taken from the deceased with a known database of viral patterns.
As it turns out, virtually none of the 36,000 people said to die from regular flu each year have been confirmed in any lab whatsoever.
Thus, according to the guidelines of the CDC and WHO, they don’t count. Based on their own rules, it is technically accurate to say that regular flu kills virtually no one. It’s not true, of course, because people do die from the “regular flu” each year, but it is technically accurate according to the CDC and WHO rules for scientific evidence.
Again, that’s because nearly all of these “regular flu” deaths aren’t confirmed by a CDC or WHO-recognized lab. Thus, they have no scientific standing.
Infectious disease double standard
I find it interesting that when talking about swine flu, the criteria for inclusion in statistics is positive identification in a rigorous laboratory. But when talking about regular flu, the criteria for inclusion is — technically speaking — anybody’s wild guess.
The 36,000 number, it turns out, was pulled out of thin air. It has no scientific validity whatsoever, even according to the CDC’s own standards.
I tracked down the origins of this number on CDC.gov, by the way. Turns out it was an estimate derived by the CDC in 2003 (http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/pres...).
It’s an estimate, mind you, not a “confirmed” number of deaths. And that estimate has stayed exactly the same through 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009. Not a budge. Before the number was 36,000, it was 20,000 for many years. That tells you right off the bat this isn’t some confirmed laboratory number — it’s a guesstimate!
I’m not disagreeing with the number. It’s probably a fairly accurate guess (the CDC folks are a smart bunch). But it doesn’t meet the criteria by which these infectious disease organizations report influenza deaths.
As the CDC even says on their own website, “This estimate came from a 2003 study published in the Journal of the American Medication Association (JAMA), which looked at the 1990-91 through the 1998-99 flu seasons [10]. Statistical modeling was used to estimate how many flu-related deaths occurred among people whose underlying cause of death on their death certificate was listed as a respiratory or circulatory disease. During these years, the number of estimated deaths ranged from 17,000 to 52,000.”
In other words, they took a look at how many people died from respiratory or circulatory disease, and from that they extrapolated “flu-related deaths.”
Free registration is required to read the rest of this article...
http://www.naturalnews.com/026169_swine_flu_CDC_influenza.html
Thank you DvdMom. I respect your logic on the response to me or not on this one.
If you thoughts on the number of influenza deaths in the United States are realistic (and I understood you correctly), then about 1250 deaths per year are due to influenza in the United States.
That’s less than one death per hospital in the United States, due to influenza. And then there are the retirement homes, the folks who stay at home, and others.
Look, I’m not wedded to 36,000 per year, but folks you have to realize the belief that less than one person per hospital per year dies of influenza, is bizarre.
One of us is a moonbat here. I’m comfortable with you folks thinking I’m the one. I just want others to see a logical objection to your conclusions.
How did CDC estimate that an average of 36,000 people die in the U.S. each year from seasonal flu?
(1) This statistic came from a 2003 JAMA study by CDC scientists [10]. The study used statistical modeling to estimate that during 9 influenza seasons from 1990-91 through 1998-99, an annual average of 36,000 flu-related deaths occurred among people whose underlying cause of death on their death certificate was listed as a respiratory or circulatory disease.
(2) A 2009 study that appeared in the journal Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses made a similar estimate for the 10 influenza seasons from 1993 to 2003 [9].
But of course, according to you, JAMA and the journal Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses are fly by night organizations that will publish just any old study.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/us_flu-related_deaths.htm
My thoughts are that
I personally don’t know the real death count at all .
I was bothered by the 36,000 mantra number repeated year after year etc..
I read articles saying many different things & numbers .
What I do know is that the regular flu usually kills people over 85 or children younger then 2 from what I’ve read in articles.
The swineflu is killing more children , young adults then
the regular flu.
I have read personal reports of people getting the swineflu more then once :(
I’ve read an article where a healthy college student who took Tamiflu the very next day of having flu symptoms ended up dead .
I have read reports that the H1N1 / swineflu is a man- made virus .
I have read reports that the H1N1 / Swineflu happened from nature .
I read reports that the H1N1 vaccine would be great .
I read reports that the H1N1 vaccine will kill you .
I just like to post as much up too date information on the swineflu that I can .
Thank you DvdMom.
I watched for 26 years as our hospital count went up from 25 to 50 to 100 or more patients for months at a time as a result of the yearly influenza. We lost people. To say that we only lost 1, and not every hospital even lost one, is a very strange unbelievable concept to me.
I know you are posting factoids from the CDC, but those factoids are sometimes not the only info.
While your comments on what constitutes a verified influenza death is certainly rational, coming to the conclusion that only a thousand or so people die from influenza each year just doesn’t compute having seen what I have.
The CDC admits they don’t actually prove each case, since not all hospitals and other long term car facilities report. They have to quantify the count some way, and I would think that they go through a logical process that takes a look at all deaths from related respiratory problems, eliminates some of them, and extrapolates projections based on some mode of reasoning.
Other than forcing all hospitals to document and sample each patient at a cost of tens of millions, this is what they’ve come up with.
I don’t have any reason to think the CDC is jobbing us on this. The figures may not be spot on, but what I’ve observed makes me think their numbers aren’t totally dismissible either.
You take care.
You’re going to a lot of trouble to post the information, and I shouldn’t totally dismiss your efforts. I apologize for being less than charitable at times.
D1
The most important informationabout H1N1 hs nothing to do with the etiology - it has to do with the gross, abject violation of civil rights that the government is invoking to sieze human bodies as government property and inject them with untested, indemnified vaccines. NOTHING else matters, unless you are arguing for collective ownership of human beings as government "content."
Yeah, WHAT choices? Go ahead, tell me - what? Nothing is presented except Tamiflu, which is acknowledged as rotting out your kidneys, and the government H1N1 live and dead vaccines which have been indemnified by federal law against lawsuits for killing people.
You have nothing in support of your contention of enforced vaccination - nothing. "Awareness" of the harm of H1N1 is utterly bogus - Mexico has supposedly been infected for months, with vastly worse hygiene, and where are their tens or hundred of thousands "fast vector infections and deaths"? WHERE? They don't exist, that's where. You're full of it - and you know it. So what's YOUR excuse for pushing something no one needs - but which could kill millions in direct violation of their civil rights, and with no legal recourse?
Canadian pharma seeks H1N1 flu victims for research
http://www.canada.com/health/Canadian+pharma+seeks+H1N1+victims+research/2051551/story.html
A Canadian pharmaceutical company believes a treatment for the H1N1 flu could be hiding in the arteries of people who caught the bug and recovered.
Just heard on news that the first vaccine for H1N1 here will be the nasal mist. That troubles me as we know those people are getting live virus and can infect others, am I wrong?
Not very comforting when I see Texas as a hot spot...........wonder why? anything to do with illegals and hygiene -— um YES!!
Freeper Ex-Texan has been posting on this thread for quite awhile . You might be interested in his post 1,605 .
Freeper Larousse2 has posted article about the dangers of Tamiflu on this thread .
I posted an article how a Vitamin C IV saved a near death swineflu patient’s life .
This is a swineflu updates thread , so this thread will have many ideas , & views.
Just because I post an article doesn’t mean that I agree or disagree with it .
I post as many different swineflu articles , & differing views as I can .
I would think you are correct . The article below seems to be saying that .
H1N1 ‘contagious week after symptoms’
07:56 AEST Tue Sep 15 2009
1 day 23 hours 49 minutes ago
By Marilynn Marchione
New studies show that many people spread swine flu for a week or more after symptoms first appear, and doctors say coughing may be a better sign than fever for telling who is contagious.
Health officials have been telling people to avoid contact with others for a day after their fever goes away. The new research suggests they may need to be careful for longer, especially at home where the risk of spreading the germ is highest.
“This study shows you’re not contagious for a day or two. You’re probably contagious for about a week,” said Dr Gaston De Serres, a scientist at the Institute of Public Health in Quebec, Canada.
He presented one of the studies on Monday at a microbiology conference.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/health/863158/h1n1-contagious-week-after-symptoms
Post subject:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/health/02flu.html?_r=
Swine Flu Spreading Widely; Worry Over Pregnant Women
By DONALD G. MCNEIL Jr.
Published: October 1, 2009
ping
Flu’s peak to be strain
Study: 42,000 in N.C. may need hospital care
http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2009/oct/02/flus-peak-to-be-strain/news/
By Richard Craver | Journal Reporter
Published: October 2, 2009
The swine flu may strike as many as 1 in 3 North Carolinians and require more than 42,000 to receive hospital care, according to the forecast from a national study released yesterday.
If that happens, most of the state’s hospitals would barely have enough beds to handle the peak of the outbreak, according to Trust for America’s Health. The study was financed by a grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.
The projection is based on the FluSurge model developed by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Nearly 3.3 million North Carolinians are expected to get swine flu.
Swine flu’s ‘second wave’ arrives in Ontario: report
By: CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Thursday Oct. 1, 2009 8:35 AM ET
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20091001/flu_ontario_091001/20091001?hub=TopStoriesV2
A new report suggests that the “second wave” of swine flu that public health officials have warned is going to hit Canada early this fall may have already arrived.
Dr. Donald Low, chief microbiologist at Toronto’s Mount Sinai Hospital, tells the Toronto Star that he’s already seeing an uptick in cases in the province. Low said a number of flu-infected patients have been arriving at hospital emergency departments.
Posts: 3,063
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=600&sid=1776716
Flu season strikes Maryland and Virginia
October 2, 2009 - 6:35am
Darci Marchese, wtop.com
WASHINGTON - Flu season has arrived, and it is hitting the metro region hard.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says Maryland and Virginia have widespread cases of both seasonal flu and H1N1. They’re among a total of 26 states seeing widespread cases.
Maryland now has at least nine H1N1 related deaths, including two children.
In Virginia, there are at least six deaths.
D.C. has what is considered localized cases, but no deaths.
According to the CDC, visits to doctors for flu-like illnesses are increasing across the country. In fact, they are higher than what’s expected this time of year, and have been increasing for six consecutive weeks.
The CDC does say that all flu viruses reported are similar to those chosen for the swine flu vaccine.
Also reported this morning - regular flu vaccine has run out in some Tx counties because people are thinking that protects them from H1N1. **shakes head** We have grown into a nation of stupid.
I’m off to work
I find this H1N1 article very sad , & interesting . This girl who died from the H1N1 swineflu had NO fever according to the article below .....
((( Danelle Olivares, Trinity’s mother said, “They said all things led to the H1N1 which really blew me away because she had no symptoms of that. She didn’t even run a fever, that was what the OMI said.” ))))
Rio Rancho Girl With H1N1 Dies
Health Department Confirms Death Result Of H1N1
POSTED: 7:51 pm MDT October 1, 2009
UPDATED: 11:02 pm MDT October 1, 2009
RIO RANCHO, N.M. — School officials has confirmed that a kindergarten student at Rio Rancho Elementary School died of the H1N1 virus.
On Sunday, 5-year-old Trinity Olivares started vomiting, the family took her to the ER. where doctors told her parents that she was severely dehydrated.
Doctors gave her IV fluids and everything seemed OK, then her heart stopped.
Danelle Olivares, Trinity’s mother said, “They said all things led to the H1N1 which really blew me away because she had no symptoms of that. She didn’t even run a fever, that was what the OMI said.”
The New Mexico Department of Health stated a female infant from Roosevelt County has also died as a result of H1N1.
Neither children had any other chronic medical condition, health department officials said.
“Our sympathies go out to the families who are dealing with the loss of their children,” said Health Secretary Dr. Alfredo Vigil.
http://www.koat.com/health/21177413/detail.html
Try to have fun at work :)
Kuwaiti teenager dies from swine flu; fatality toll up to 9 - ministry
10/2/2009 3:51:00 PM
http://www.kuna.net.kw/NewsAgenciesPublicSite/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=2029012&Language=en
KUWAIT, Oct 2 (KUNA) — A Kuwaiti teenager died after being infected with the A (H1N1) or swine flu virus, bringing the fatality toll up to nine, the Health Ministry said on Friday.
The deceased, a 14-year-old female with the Down syndrome, was also suffering from severe pneumonia and chest pain, as she was hospitalized and admitted into ICU with a critical condition on September 25. She was treated with antivirals but was too weak to fight the disease, an official source at the ministry told KUNA.
The deceased passed away last night.
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