Posted on 04/28/2008 12:01:40 PM PDT by Delacon
So whats going on here with this stupid Expelled movie? No, I havent seen the dang thing. Ive been reading about it steadily for weeks now though, both pro (including the pieces by David Klinghoffer and Dave Berg on National Review Online) and con, and I cant believe it would yield up many surprises on an actual viewing. Its pretty plain that the thing is creationist porn, propaganda for ignorance and obscurantism. How could a guy like this do a thing like that?
I turned over some possibilities, but decisively rejected them all. The first thing that came to mind was Saudi money. Half of the evils and absurdities in our society seem to have a Saudi prince behind them somewhere, and the Wahhabists are, like all fundamentalist Muslims, committed creationists. This doesnt hold water, though. For one thing, Stein is Jewish. For another, he is rich, and doesnt need the money. And for another, the stills and clips I have seen are from a low-budget production. Saudi financing would surely at least have come up with some decent computer graphics. No, Ben Stein is no crook. He must then be foolish; and thats sad, because I now think less of a guy I once admired, and whom my friends admire. Life, its just one darn bubble bursting after another.
To return to the matter of computer graphics for a moment, it seems that the producers of Expelled, rather than go to the trouble and expense of making their own, may have just stolen some. (The creationists have posted a defense here. There will probably be a lawsuit under way, which I shall report back on. Oh, and as I write this, I see a Reuters report that our defenders of faith and morality may have stolen some music too. How many more shoes will drop, I wonder?) It is at any rate clear that they engaged in much deception with the subjects they interviewed for the movie, many of whom are complaining loudly. This, together with much, much else about the movie, can be read about on the Expelled Exposed website put up by the National Center for Science Education, which I urge all interested readers to explore.
These dishonesties do not surprise me. When talking about the creationists to people who dont follow these controversies closely, I have found that the hardest thing to get across is the shifty, low-cunning aspect of the whole modern creationist enterprise. Individual creationists can be very nice people, though they get nicer the further away they are from the full-time core enterprise of modern creationism at the Discovery Institute. The enterprise as a whole, however, really doesnt smell good. You notice this when youre around it a lot. I shall give some more examples in a minute; but what accounts for all this dishonesty and misrepresentation?
My own theory is that the creationists have been morally corrupted by the constant effort of pretending not to be what they are. What they are, as is amply documented, is a pressure group for religious teaching in public schools.
Now, there is nothing wrong with that. We are a nation of pressure groups, and one more would hardly notice. However, since parents who want their kids religiously educated already have plenty of private and parochial schools to choose from (half the kids on my street have attended parochial school), as well as the option of home schooling, now very well organized and supported (and heartily approved of by me: I just wish I knew how they find the time); and since current jurisprudence, how correctly I am not competent to say, regards tax-funded religious instruction as unconstitutional; creationists are a pressure group without hope, if they campaign openly for the thing they want.
Understanding this, the creationists took the morally fatal decision to campaign clandestinely. They overhauled creationism as intelligent design, roped in a handful of eccentric non-Christian cranks keen for a well-funded vehicle to help them push their own flat-earth theories, and set about presenting themselves to the public as alternative science" engaged in a controversy with a closed-minded, reactionary science establishment fearful of new ideas. (Ignoring the fact that without a constant supply of new ideas, there would be nothing for scientists to do.) Nothing to do with religion at all!
I think this willful act of deception has corrupted creationism irredeemably. The old Biblical creationists were, in my opinion, wrong-headed, but they were mostly honest people. The intelligent design crowd lean more in the other direction. Hence the dishonesty and sheer nastiness, even down to plain bad manners, that you keep encountering in ID circles. Its by no means all of them, but its enough to corrupt and poison the creationist enterprise, which might otherwise have added something worthwhile to our national life, if only by way of entertainment value.
This dishonesty showed up very soon after the creationists decided to don the mask of alternative science in the 1990s. A key episode was the Kunming conference of June 1999. In very brief you can read the full story in Forrest and Grosss Creationisms Trojan Horse (A bad book, a very bad book, shuddered the Discovery Institutes Bruce Chapman when he saw it on my desk, like a vampire spotting a clove of garlic), pp.56-66 there is a very interesting bed of extremely old fossils near Kunming, in southern China. Paul Chien, a little-known creationist of Chinese ancestry from San Francisco, acted as a front man for the Discovery Institute to organize a conference in Kunming, bringing in professional paleontologists from China and abroad, but without telling them of the Discovery Institutes involvement. The aim was to produce and then to promote a book containing the conference papers of [creationist] members immediately juxtaposed to those written by respected scientists in the relevant fields. (Forrest & Gross, their italics.) When the real paleontologists found out what was going on, and how they had been brought across China, or around the world, they were not pleased. Embarrassing scenes followed. No book ever appeared.
Examples can be multiplied. The witty and mild-mannered federal Judge Jones, who presided over the 2005 Kitzmiller trial in Dover, Pa., felt moved to note that: The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the ID Policy. It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy. The response of the Discovery Institute was to launch sneering, slanderous attacks on the professionalism and competence of Judge Jones (a church-going conservative Republican appointed by President George W. Bush).
So it goes with the stalwart defenders of truth and morality over at the Discovery Institute. So it goes with Ben Stein, apparently, since he has signed up with these mountebanks, for reasons that remain mysterious to me. The misrepresentations in Expelled are far too numerous for me to list here, and the task is unnecessary since others have done it. The aforementioned Expelled Exposed website is a great resource. Biologist P. Z. Myers, in a less organized way, has been pointing up the errors and deceptions in Expelled since the wretched thing hove into view. (Here he links to a whole stack of reviews, including a couple of positives.) Other science-literate bloggers have been weighing in, often very angrily. One of my favorite comments came from Pixy Misa (Andrew Mazels) who correctly called Ben Stein's accusing Darwin of responsibility for the Holocaust a blood libel on science.
I would actually go further than that, to something like a blood libel on Western Civilization. One of the most-quoted remarks by one conservative writer about another was Evelyn Waugh's on Kipling. It bears quoting again.
[Kipling] was a conservative in the sense that he believed civilization to be something laboriously achieved which was only precariously defended. He wanted to see the defences fully manned and he hated the liberals because he thought them gullible and feeble, believing in the easy perfectibility of man and ready to abandon the work of centuries for sentimental qualms.
Western civilization has many glories. There are the legacies of the ancients, in literature and thought. There are the late-medieval cathedrals, those huge miracles of stone, statuary, and spiritual devotion. There is painting, music, the orderly cityscapes of Renaissance Italy, the peaceful, self-governed townships of old New England and the Frontier, the steel marvels of the early industrial revolution, our parliaments and courts of law, our great universities with their spirit of restless inquiry.
And there is science, perhaps the greatest of all our achievements, because nowhere else on earth did it appear. China, India, the Muslim world, all had fine cities and systems of law, architecture and painting, poetry and prose, religion and philosophy. None of them ever accomplished what began in northwest Europe in the later 17th century, though: a scientific revolution. Thoughtful men and women came together in learned societies to compare notes on their observations of the natural world, to test their ideas in experiments, and in reasoned argument against the ideas of others, and to publish their results in learned journals. A body of common knowledge gradually accumulated. Patterns were observed, laws discerned and stated.
If I write with more feeling than usual here it is because I have just shipped off a review to an editor (for another magazine) of Gino Segrès new book about the history of quantum mechanics. Its a good, if not very remarkable, book giving pen-portraits of the great players in physics during the 1920s and 1930s, and of their meetings and disagreements. Segrè, a particle physicist himself, who has been around for a while, knew some of these people personally, and of course heard many anecdotes from their intellectual descendants. It's a warm book, full of feeling for the scientists and their magnificent enterprise, struggling with some of the most difficult problems the human intellect has ever confronted, striving with all their powers to understand what can barely be understood.
Gino Segrès book and, of course, hundreds like it (I have, ahem, dabbled myself) brings to us a feeling for what the scientific endeavor is like, and how painfully its triumphs are won, with what sweat and tears. Our scientific theories are the crowning adornments of our civilization, towering monuments of intellectual effort, built from untold millions of hours of observation, measurement, classification, discussion, and deliberation. This is quite apart from their wonderful utility from the light, heat, and mobility they give us, the drugs and the gadgets and the media. (A thank you wouldnt go amiss.) Simply as intellectual constructs, our well-established scientific theories are awe-inspiring.
And now here is Ben Stein, sneering and scoffing at Darwin, a man who spent decades observing and pondering the natural world that world Stein glimpses through the window of his automobile now and then, when hes not chattering into his cell phone. Stein claims to be doing it in the name of an alternative theory of the origin of species: Yet no such alternative theory has ever been presented, nor is one presented in the movie, nor even hinted at. There is only a gaggle of fools and fraudsters, gaping and pointing like Apaches on seeing their first locomotive: Look! It moves! There must be a ghost inside making it move!
The intelligent design hoax is not merely non-science, nor even merely anti-science; it is anti-civilization. It is an appeal to barbarism, to the sensibilities of those Apaches, made by people who lack the imaginative power to know the horrors of true barbarism. (A thing that cannot be said of Darwin. See Chapter X of Voyage of the Beagle.)
And yes: When our greatest achievements are blamed for our greatest moral failures, that is a blood libel against Western civilization itself. What next, Ben? Johann Sebastian Bach ran a slave-trading enterprise on the side? Kepler started the Thirty Years War? Tolstoy instigated the Kishinev Pogrom? Dante was a bag-man for the Golden Horde? Why not go smash a few windows in Chartres Cathedral, Ben? Break wind in a chamber-music concert? Splash some red paint around in the Uffizi? Which other of our civilizational achievements would you like to sneer at? What else from what Waugh called the work of centuries would you like to abandon for sentimental qualms? You call yourself a conservative? Feugh!
For shame, Ben Stein, for shame. Stand up for your civilization, man! and all its glories. The barbarians are at the gate, as they always have been. Come man the defenses with us, leaving the liars and fools to their lies and folly.
>>Well, when they release a commercial that starts out with a tired and old false argument against evolution, they should expect some criticism.<<
Do you mean the question, “How did life begin?” I think that’s a pretty good question, and you may be convinced that science can answer that question, but I am not.
I have not seen the movie, so I don’t know if arguments against it are valid or not, but I don’t have any problem with the commercial I have seen.
Some scientist attempted the experiment with the “lucky lightning strike” and got some “organic chemicals” to form.
However, not only has his “primordial soup” been refuted as what actually existed at the proposed pre-life time,
his “organic chemicals” were chemicals like formaldehyde that are hostile to life.
I am skeptical.
That is the question, exactly. And it has nothing to do with the theory of evolution. Oh, I know, all the creationists here want to say that it does, over and over, endlessly, but it doesn't. Life must exist already for evolution to occur. There is no way around it. The idea that life sprang from some random event (and lifeless compounds) is called "abiogensis". NOT "evolution".
His problem with Intelligent Design boils down to the fact that many who believe in ID are creationists. He would have us believe that that fact alone invalidates ID as a scientifically valid idea, which is a non-sequiter. All he’s doing is demonstrating that he’s an atheist. The rest of his rant then flows from his atheist world view, and is mixed in with various other irrelevancies and ad hominem arguments, such as Moslems are creationists, etc.
>>Life must exist already for evolution to occur.<<
I agree. So you don’t think that Stein’s question was a challenge to abiogenesis and the arrogance of some materialists?
If Stein’s premise is that because science doesn’t really understand life (which I think is true), evolution must be totally false, then I think he is wrong about that.
No, not shocked but I am surprised that one can believe in a God incapable of creating, or only capable of controlling while not capable of creating, not responsible, or not involved with creation. To ME, it doesn’t make any sense.
But I’ve seen that today for the first time, and it seems to me an extraordinary effort to believe the LEAST likely scenario, while disparaging others.
Not speaking of you of course.
It sounds like we believe the same exact thing, at least from the nuts and bolts of it.
And yes scientifically, we have two competing theories, that I don’t see necessary in place to threaten the other, because neither offers definitive end all answers, so the logical thing TO ME seems to let them play out!
I also think when a person, or group begins demanding to define and to control exchange of information is dangerous, from EITHER side BTW, and I’d vigorously tell ID proponents looking to DEMAND evolution be banned, or dismissed or made fun of, that they’re doing more to HARM ID with that attitude.
But demanidng people to shut up because that’s not science, etc. likewise isn’t a genuine exploration of ideas IMO.
As far as the earth being 6000 years old, I don’t much CARE...some people are fixated, but the FACT is no one was there to live to tell about it, we simply study what’s been left behind with the MAN-made (ie INFALLABLE) TOOLS WE’VE CREATED!
Science indeed explains the things we CAN explain, but that doesn’t mean that which it can not explain, ie the supernatural, OR that science is the ONLY means to explain our world.
For all I know the thousands vs. millions of years is as simple as years in ancient times were measured differently than today, which explains Biblical figures being hundreds of years old, when they may have only been 30-40, I don’t know.
If God was able to create Adam and all we know from dirt or nothing...and Satan was able to cause the fall of man in the Garden of Eden, then it seems to me dinosaurs could well be something unexplained by science and supernatural as well, don’t know, wasn’t there.
Maybe when God created the dinosaurs on day one...that day TOOK a ga-jillion years...and as God progressed through creation, He was measuring days in it’s infancy for the first time, perhaps he adjusted a day as he went along, to the point by the end it more closely resembled what we now have.
I don’t think sciewnce, the Bible, etc. was intended to explain every single solitary thing we think about, otherwise how utterly BORING it owuld be to “know it all”.
Besides, I think the next life will be for all that.
But yes, I agree science shouldn’t be forced to address ID, but I also agree it shouldn’t demand it be hidden either!
Let the people decide for themselves!
I think we agree on far more than we disagree btw.
I believe Stein's premise was the lack "free speech" in the science classroom. Which is laughably ridiculous, as well harmful. That's the problem.
Yes, and that follows from the notion of design, purpose, teleology, and intelligent creation.
The Darwinism-Eugenics history is a little more incriminating than you would make it seem. Lurkers can go to my FR page and read about some of it.
My bad, I thought you’re tagline used to read Godless Athiest...
It's a reasonable hypothesis.
BTW, the finches are now pretty obviously not evidence for any kind of macro-evolution since many of the "different" species have been observed breeding with each other. The beak sizes are just adaptation, which is what all observed "evolution" is. They have been seen to both grow and shrink at various times.
By next weekend it will have passed over Roger and Me, not too shabby for a movie playing to mostly empty seats.
If it does better than it did last week, maybe. It's about $1.5 million behind. Of course, Roger and Me opened on 4 screens and never showed on more than 265 at any one time, a quarter of the screens Expelled opened on.
The End.
See ya on another thread!
2. What is wrong with "elitism." To be an elitist is to believe in high standards, and the fact that those with talent and intelligence shoulder the burden for all of us and are the ones who ultimately advance civilization.
I think too many folks (Laura Ingraham being the most noteworthy example) confuse elitism with snobbery. They are two separate concepts.
The migration of populist retards to the Right has ruined the conservative movement, IMHO.
By what means? Just anything Congress feels the need to do?
That describes almost every social climber ever born.
Pretty much every other 20 something in NYC is a refugee from a blue collar or lower-middle white collar home in a small town - and they usually delight in putting down the town they came from, the religion they were raised in, the silly devotion to local sports in their hometown, the lack of culture in their hometown, etc.
2. What is wrong with "elitism." To be an elitist is to believe in high standards, and the fact that those with talent and intelligence shoulder the burden for all of us and are the ones who ultimately advance civilization.
There is a difference between maintaining a standard of excellence and a standard of detached cynicism - or, as you put it, between elitism and snobbery. Derbyshire is a snob.
The migration of populist retards to the Right has ruined the conservative movement, IMHO.
I definitely agree with that sentiment.
Here is the problem: mindless populism on the one hand is counterbalanced by obnoxious obscurantism on the other hand - i.e. the "palaeoconservative" faction.
And the two factions often mutually support each other in a noxious alliance - like the Ron Paul campaign.
Especially in the matter of religion: for the populist, religion is a purely emotional phenomenon - which is precisely the way the wry snob views it: namely as an emotional response which is sometimes useful among the lower sort but which he is thankfully free from.
There is a type of "conservative" who views faith and patriotism as useful items which can be manipulated for political ends. And then there is the populist "conservative" who views emotionalism as "faith" and ethnonationalism as "patriotism."
The target is atheistic Darwinism. You could not overstate the case against this. Followers of that ideology currently want to combine human and animal DNA to form chimeras like the Humanzee.
To not be able to separate atheistic Darwinism from Western civilization as a whole (which includes Christianity) is a serious mistake and intellectual error.
These atheists are behind the eugenics of Planned Parenthood, abortion on demand, embryonic stem cell research, Frankenfoods, and the animal-human hybrid experiments. These are crimes against humanity.
Atheistic Darwinism is not the essence of civilization. Civilization pre-dates the rise of scientific materialism.
Here’s where you can find the nearest Expelled movie near you:
http://www.expelledthemovie.com/theaterap.php
And then check out the trailer.
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