This is an infrequent ping list for Ben Stein’s current articles.
Tell me if you want on or off.
Posted on 09/04/2007 7:48:46 PM PDT by RightOnTheLeftCoast
Ben Stein: Gestapo Tactics Got Larry Craig
Tuesday, September 4, 2007 7:39 PM
Former Sen. Larry Craig didn't do anything illegal and was railroaded with "Gestapo tactics," says actor and commentator Ben Stein.
Appearing recently on Your World With Neil Cavuto program, Stein remarked: "I don't like the idea that people are sitting in the next stall from you at a public bathroom listening to whether or not you tap your foot. This is, as I said, Gestapo tactics. Gestapo, Gestapo, Gestapo. It's not America."
Stein says Craig, who was arrested June 11 by Minneapolis police and pled guilty to a charge of disorderly conduct, is a victim of "pure police entrapment and thuggery."
"The police have real work to do at the airport," Stein says. "It's an airport, hello. There are security problems at airports. Al-qaida: Are you listening? Our security people are entrapping perfectly honest U.S. senators in lavatory stalls instead of looking for you terrorists."
Stein charges that police intimidated Craig into pleading guilty to disorderly conduct after he was arrested for tapping his foot in a bathroom stall at the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport.
Police say foot tapping is a common overture used to signal interest in a sexual encounter. Minneapolis police had reportedly made several arrests in recent months for lewd conduct in restrooms at the airport.
"A policeman drags him off, or verbally drags him off, starts browbeating him, essentially threatens he's going to ruin his career if the guy doesn't plead guilty right away," Stein tells Cavuto. "This is Gestapo tactics in Minneapolis-St. Paul. It's not nice."
Stein adds that it was wrong for GOP stalwarts to join the drumbeat for Craig's resignation: "This is some way to treat the people who have been loyal members of your party for many years. What did he do wrong? Suppose he was soliciting for gay sex. Gay sex is not illegal in the United States, the Supreme Court has said that. If it were illegal, it would be a different story. It's not illegal. He didn't do anything illegal, they're just bludgeoning him into a confession."
The Craig scandal points out a fundamental question about the balance of political power, according to Stein.
"On trumped up charges, they bring down the legislator and change the balance of power within the United States generally," he says. "This is a really serious case of police overreaching and the victim here is Larry Craig and the Constitution of the United States."
Craig has represented Idaho in Congress for over a quarter of a century and was up for re-election next year.
You're under arrest!
People seem to be mixing up lots of feelings about bodily functions here. Dirty bathrooms comes up a lot - without any suggestion that the particular bathroom was dirty at all. It seems that the venue is a trigger for radical emotional reactions to the general public.
If we commonly had unisex bathrooms, would any exchange between a female and a male visitor be legal? Likely why we most commonly have separate facilities.
Funny thing is, homos serving in the military seems quite acceptable to the general public - never mind the common showers and bathrooms hetero GI’s have to share with these perverts. I guess those in the military must grin and bear the disorderly conduct without complaint.
Clearly you must either be a cop or....LOL
If you read the transcript of the police's questioning of Craig he either has to drag this into court for all the world and or can just plead to the lesser charge, pay a fine quietly and make the flight he says he cannot miss. It reads as if his plea was on the razor's edge of coercion.
Given how this has played out politically, can you blame him for wanting to avoid the Media controversy? He's damned either way with no means of defending himself if not guilty.
In the interview he never agrees to the cop's reading of the signals, the cop doesn't even give specifics about the supposed communication sent and recieved.
There's nothing unambiguous. There was no exposure, no touching, no words exchanged, no notes nor any specific interpretation the cop gave to each foot or hand exchange.
If the cop got these signals, who was Craig saying should do what? There's no corroboration. The cop was tasked to address cottaging in the airport bathroom and was thus highly motivated to get pleas, generating "we did something" stats for the public.
Craig questions the hand the cop claimed to see. The cop said it was Craig's left running along the right-side divider. Craig appears to be right-handed.
For me this cop, having sat for 13 minutes in the stall, motivated to generate arrests, pulled out of this alleged "exchange" too early to show me cause for the arrest. The freaked out GOP mishandled this badly. It's like shooting ducks in a barrel for the Left.
Leftist activists want Craig's scalp because he voted for DOMA and they scream "hypocrisy" which is always the Democrat battle cry against the GOP.
Mitt threw his loyal supporter Craig under the bus to pander to value voters he's weak with.
The "facts" tell me this is not something to end Craig's (apparently solid) career on before voters of Idaho can have their say in the next primary election.
First, all of Vick's defenders start out with 'I am no defender of Vick's actions' and that is exactly what you are doing.
Second, animals are not inanimate and should not be treated cruelly.
Thirdly, what he did is against the law and he knew it.
Fourthy, no one is comparing (but PETA), what he did to the dogs and doing the same thing to people.
But his 'property' rights do not extend to treating his animals in anyway he wants to.
All rights contain responsiblities as well.
Well, he must have thought something he did was illegal-he pleaded guilty to disturbing the peace in order to sweep the entire thing under the rug!
The fact is that as a U.S. Senator, he should have the good grace to just leave quietly instead of embarrassing his entire State!
This is an infrequent ping list for Ben Stein’s current articles.
Tell me if you want on or off.
If double posting were an arrestable offense, every FR home page would have finger prints and a mug shot!
Exactly, just as in the public street or Park, an individual should have the right to walk without being propositioned by hookers.
I'm not a lawyer either, but I can quote someone who is. Read this:
What really seems to have happened is that the airport police had received complaints about sexual activity and were acting over-zealously to deter it, regardless of the niceties of state criminal law.And I absolutely object to the contention that if the police arrest someone that is sufficient reason to believe that the person arrested has comitted a crime.
No big city police force sets up a sting operation without being sure about the legal niceties of what's required for a bust.
And, again, it's clearly not enough for it to be illegal only to actually perform a sex act in the restroom. The solicitation of such an act must also be illegal in order that vulnerable individuals be protected by law from predators. And I'm surprised that Ben Stein appears not to have recognized that the simple solicitation of a sex act can be a crime (whether the sex act is gay or straight being irrelevant).
See this:
Minn. Stat. 617.23, the indecent exposure statute, covers lewd or lascivious conduct in a public place. Sex and masturbation count as lewd and lascivious acts. There is, however, some Minnesota case law suggesting that public restrooms aren't "public places" once you close the door to your stall. State v. Bryant, 177 N.W.2d 800, 803-04 (Minn. 1970).Even if the completed act would be a crime, it's doubtful that merely asking for sex in the restroom would be a crime.
Minnesota, unlike some jurisdictions, does not have a general solicitation statute. Mere solicitation of a crime is not a crime. State v. Lowrie, 54 N.W.2d 265, 266 (Minn. 1952); State v. Johnson, 2005 Minn. App. Unpub. LEXIS 352 at *9. Minnesota does of course have an attempt statute, 609.17, but that requires a substantial step toward completion of the crime, plus the specific intent to commit the crime. I think it's possible but doubtful that Craig's acts would count as a substantial step, and it's also possible but doubtful that you could infer such a specific intent. Or rather — there's some inference there, but it's not strong enough to support guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
apparently the DEMOCRAT mayor of Fort Lauderdale Florida has had a number of complaints about families with children being exposed to this type of behavior in public bathrooms along the beach.
-—It seems that the venue is a trigger for radical emotional reactions to the general public.-—
It’s not because it’s dirty, necessarily; it’s because it’s a place where we are vulnerable. It’s a place where we strangers come and go, and it’s a place where we regularly pull our pants down. I feel like I’m explaining the facts of life to little kids here.
I agree. I support Craig 100%. He should stand his ground. Flirting is not a crime and should not be the cause of losing one’s job. Had he indecently exposed himself or actually engaged in public sex, that would be a different story. Winking and tapping your toe is not a crime — even in public. Heck, ball players pat each other’s arse in public all the time and no one things anything of it.
What part of 'plead guilty' do you not understand?
Do you think this guy is going to get reelected in his State?
Craig disgraced his office and his State and should have the decency to resign.
I find Vick’s actions with respect to hanging and electrocuting his animals morally indefensible. And I find your outrage to be righteous. However, when I see the full force of a vitriolic media come to bear on issues other than Vick’s public personage and stray into the realm of the rights of livestock owners whose property (like pet owners) have always been regarded as chattel, then I speak out. The effect will be do gooder federal legislation, more restrictions and mind control. These are matters best left up to the local sheriff and town board.
This my friend is ultimately what is at stake
Undercover crapper stooges? What sort of creep would take that job anyway? No one ever wanted head (I know I know but that’s what we call it in the Marines) duty.
I remember Andy Griffith in “No Time for Sargeants.” Playing the role of a country bumpkin “plow boy” he was honored to be assigned PLO (permanent latrine officer) or something like that. Anyway, he designed a foot tapping rig that could raise all the toilet seats at once to salute inspecting officers. It was funny.
Back to Stein and Craig. Stein is right. For all we know this perverted police exercise took down an innocent and honest man. I don’t know about the rest, but I was totally unaware of the foot tap prelude to gay sex while crappin.
Course now that we all know, no doubt some poor innocent soul with RLS (restless leg syndrome,) will probably get his lights punched out.
All I know, in the future, I plan to tie my feet together and place may forearms on my thighs so there’s absolutely no chance my feet can move while crappin in a public stall.
What I want to know is, where did the pervert police have his feet placed in his john? Were they placed close to Craig’s side of the stall? Does Craig have big feet? What position does Craig place his legs and feet while crappin?
How large or small are these stalls? What is the height of the crapper and how long are Craig’s legs?
Okay, you can see where this can go. It’s stupid.
In all my years and all my travels I don’t recall ever having the crapper next to me tap his feet or his feet touch mine. But I did have one interesting visit. I had an emergency while grocery shopping. Everyone knows how they hide the crappers in grocery stores. Anyway, when I finally found them, time was running out. I crashed thru the door and rushed to a stall. Made it. Geesh that was close. Relaxing and about to wrap up I heard two female voices enter the bathroom. One took a stall to the left of me and the other to the right. They continued to carry on their conservsation with me in the middle. I realized my err. Now I am about to panic realizing the world we live today and what charges could be brought against me. I placed the heels of my feet on the front of the bowl so hopefully they could only possibly see the toes of my tennis shoes. I thought they would never leave. Finally they finished, washed up, and exited the bathroom still chatting uninterrupted during the entire episode. I didn’t flush and I didn’t wash...and I’m sure they probably had to replace the latch on that stall. I was outta there. When I caught up with my wife in the store she said are you ok? I said yea why? She said you look as if you’ve seen a ghost or something. I said, I’ll tell you about it later. Are we done here?
How about lying to his constitutants about his 'flirting'
Did he admit he was 'flirting', or come up with some nonsense story to cover up what he was really doing?
The problem is NOBODY believes this is senator craig’s first time in a men’s room seeking sexual recreation.
This case was handled badly, however that does not eliminate common sense conclusions that this was the ONLY time he did this.
It has become common practice for homosexuals to engage in sexual activity in public restooms. Not just invite someone to have sex elsewhere, but to engage in sex right there in the PUBLIC restroom. Yes, that has to be stopped, and if it takes cops coming down hard on the activity that leads up to the act, then so be it.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.