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WHY ALL CONSERVATIVES SHOULD SUPPORT RUDY WITH ENTHUSIASM IN 2008
A CONSERVATIVE BUT RATIONAL MIND | 3/4/2007 | AL SIMMONS

Posted on 03/04/2007 1:04:27 PM PST by Al Simmons

One recent anti-Rudy poster stated the following:

"And if Rudy does get the nod, expect the MSM to open up the hype floodgates on the cross-dressing and the gay stuff -- oh, not condemning of course (wink) but how it's a big change, how will this play in the South, does this mean gay marriage is A-OK for the GOP."

MY REPLY: And if they do it will be countered with images of Rudy's heroism during and after 9/11 and most Americans will be DISGUSTED - at the MSM, NOT at RUDY.

The issue in 2008 will be the WOT - what with Iran's creeping closer to nukes and threatening the world. Not pull-out, but how to best change strategy and WIN.

Your statement does not mean to, but it nevertheless implies that Southerners and all Socons are stupid one-issue voters. Having lived in the Bible - Belt for 8 years I can tell you this is FAR from the truth. Its almost like you have been taken in by, and are repeating the MSM's Koolaid mantra about this group of Americans - of which I consider myself to be one, BTW.

Southerners are the most patriotic of Americans, they know we are at war, they absolutely DESPISE the treasonous opposition like Murtha, and they know that Rudy is the one who will take the fight to the terrorists - and without a velvet glove a la Dubya in Iraq, but with brass knuckles.

Rudy's principled stance on judges and the 'socon' issues (ie. he is a constructionist who will appoint constructionist judges like Scalia and Roberts - confirmed by no less a Federalist Society Conservative luminary than Ted Olsen - combined with his tacit promise that he is not a 'crusader' on social issues but believes that they should be decided by the people's elected representatives is right in line with what 90% of 'socons' (like myself, for example) believe).

So the fact that he is not flip-flopping a la Mitt and trying to brown-nose this "group" is also enhancing his image as a true leader - which he is - its funny how it was the Veterans here on FR who have been the first to catch on to that. Its a 'disturbance in the force' that we are highly attuned to, if you will. We can tell a real leader from a political poseur a mile away - and Rudy is a real leader.

Therefore Rudy will not meet significant opposition in the primary voters block except from a tiny minority of 'no compromise - any time any where' radicals who are squealing like stuck pigs around here the past few weeks because their own tactics have resulted in themselves becoming increasingly marginalized and out-of-the current conservative stream, which gathering itself up into a raging torrent that will sweep Rudy into office.

I was open-minded on Rudy when the bashing started a couple of weeks ago. Now, I am 100% behind him. The misguided attempts at character assassination, and 'can't see the forest for the trees blindness' of the anti-Rdy bots around here has had this effect on many, many Freepers - and is having this effect on conservative voters across the country.

Contrary to the idiotic "Rudy=Hitlary" statements which even the biggest rube knows are BS, the difference between Rudy and Hitlary (besides that one will cut-and-run while the other will get tougher in the WOT) is that Hitlary is a doctrinaire crusading Marxist who will use the FULL power of her office to sign laws and appoint judges who will seek to limit and take away our rights as religious Americans, home-schoolers and 2nd Amendment backers - this will be THE FOCUS of her administration, NOT the WOT. She's waited nearly 40 years to implement Saul ALinsky's tactics for turing America into a Marxist-liberal state. And she is cackling about the dissent she hopes will split the GOP and give her a cakewalk to the WH. Happily, she is DEAD WRONG about this.

Rudy's priorities are straight - WOT is #1, - AND IF YOU GET NOTHING MORE OUT OF THIS POST, PLEASE GET THIS:

Rudy is a PRINCIPLED CONSERVATIVE who believes that the people should decide most of their social issues through their local elected representatives - and he will appoint conservative judges who have that philosophy - as opposed to Hitlary, who will appoint Ruth Bader Ginsburgs to every open Federal Judiciary Seat ACROSS THE NATION.

THAT is the real difference between Rudy and any national radical crusading left-wing Democrat who will run in 2008 (99% chance its Hitlary in my view).

So look at this issue beyond looking at out-of-context quotes made by Rudy when he was Mayor of a 5-1 LIBERAL city where he had to politically survive in order to save the City (which he did). He was THE most hated politician by the liberal limousine crowd that NY had ever seen. Does this sound like Rudy=Hitlary to you?

Look at his record of leadership and supporting pro-life and pro-2nd Amendment conservative candidates ALL OVER THE COUNTRY in the 2002, 2004 and 2006 elections.

That is called loyalty and patriotism. This is a man in whom I would have every confidence being back-to-back with in a political foxhole - and I cannot say that about any of the other candidates.

So please, those of you criticizing Rudy so viciously around here - get your 'gaze out of your navels' and see the 'Big Picture'.

Rudy is not a threat to conservatives, he will uphold local rights (especially through his judicial appointments), AND he will fight to protect this nation from a terrorist and a looming nuclear-terrorist peril. The alternative is to elect a Dem and concede defeat - HERE and ABROAD.

He is NO THREAT to the so-called 'socons'.

But he is a DEADLY THREAT to the terorrists and terrorist states (read:Iran) who would destroy us - and he a DEADLY THREAT to the liberal hegemony that Hitlary and her backers would LOVE to impose upon us.

It is the MSM that is playing up the 'Rudy is splitting the GOP base' FALSE stories. They are hoping to create such a split so that they have a chance to defeat him in 2008.

Well, their strategy is NOT WORKING, and he will defeat them - for all our sakes - in 2008.

Over and out!


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 1dumbvanity; allaboutme; attentionwhore; blahblahblah; brownnosers; duncanhunter; duncanslob; fallacy; fearmongering; giuliani; hillary; lipstickliberal; lookatme; me2ers; pompoms; rino; rudy; rudyhitlery; rudytherino; rury; thatissogay; uselessvanity; wot; yesmen
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Comment #621 Removed by Moderator

To: dmw
Thank goodness...a reasoned response from dmw. I was beginning to feel unwanted around Free Republic.

I wish there were a conservative party in American politics. That would probably put a stop to most of the vetching that goes on in the republican party about ones pedigree:

"You aren't a true conservative", "Yes, I am", "I'm an ultra conservative", "No you're not", "You're a moderate conservative on some issues, but slightly left of the middle center to the right of conservative on fiscal issues". And on and on. Sheesh.

Good night. See you on the threads.
622 posted on 03/04/2007 9:15:23 PM PST by aligncare (No, the science is NOT settled.)
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To: aligncare
Okay, I give up - Rudy is the Devil, and for supporting Giuliani, I beg forgiveness from Duncan Hunter.

Sarcasm duly noted. Seriously, though, do you not think that Rudy's lawsuit showed a desire for him, as mayor of N.Y.C., to restrict firearm ownership outside his jurisdiction? And has he done anything to repudiate such a philosophy?

623 posted on 03/04/2007 9:16:51 PM PST by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: aligncare
No one is inhibiting discussions. But some of us will not be bullied or stampeded toward a far left liberal, Democratic clone. Some of us are veery unhappy with Giuliani, and don't want to see his nomination, since it very well could lead to a consensus campaign on social issues, a vapid, happy talk lovefest with Hillary Clinton, and another glorious defeat due to lack of principle.

We are writing to you and answering your beliefs and opinions. That's all. I don't know you, and would never think of insulting you. But if you can't handle spirited debate, you shouldn't be here.

I long ago gave people permission to call me any name in the book if it suits them. And I don't engage in back and forths. The worst name I call is Rino, and it ain't personal. Part of being here is having a thick enough skin to defend your point of view. Nobody gets a free pass, and very few here expect one.
624 posted on 03/04/2007 9:18:02 PM PST by Luke21
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To: Old_Mil
2. Hunter is not a protectionist. Under a Hunter administration, foreign trade will still occur with countries of goodwill. However, countries that use trade as a weapon against ours (like the Chinese) will be held accountable. By the way, China may attack Taiwan soon if you've seen the latest. I'll refrain from saying "I told you Nixonites so" because it's so obvious.

Held accountable in what way and define goodwill? Duncan Hunter did not vote on Human Rights in China Bill Number: H Res 364

625 posted on 03/04/2007 9:23:57 PM PST by Ms. AntiFeminazi (Terri Schiavo Incapacitated Persons Protection Bill - Duncan Hunter did not vote)
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To: nopardons

Dream on, Rudy is a New York liberal, I don't vote for liberals anymore. I don't lie either.


626 posted on 03/04/2007 9:24:00 PM PST by Tarpon
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To: nopardons
Now,(sic) now, that was never "proved".(sic) nether(sic), as some of you claim, has it been "proved" that the cases against Hunter have been dropped.

OK, I have taken a few minutes and now think I understand your sentence. Sort of.

It is PROVED by the record that Hunter voted in FAVOR of the PBA Ban.

The onus is on you to go to the record of the votes and convince the official record keeper to change to it your view. From the way you talk to people here on FR, they may just back down and change the record to lie about Hunter's vote out of fear. Especially if you use some CAPS.

Rudy said himself that he would NOT vote in favor of a ban on PBA. That's where they pull almost the whole LIVE VIABLE baby out and then kill it and so they can deliver it dead.

Now as for the "some of you" comment, don't include me in your broad brush. I haven't ever said the cases against Hunter have been dropped. In fact, I don't know of any cases against him. Has he been indicted for some crimes?

If so, take it up with those talking about them, and present your proof that he is guilty. (no links now though...)

Don't forget to ping me to the accusations of you being a baby killer that you promised. Thanks.

627 posted on 03/04/2007 9:25:15 PM PST by Syncro
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To: TomasUSMC

I am looking at Ron Paul, Tom Tancredo or Duncan Hunter in about that order. Were Fred Thompson to run, I'd consider him, as well.


628 posted on 03/04/2007 9:27:41 PM PST by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: stockpirate

"That is in fact an act of disrepsect, and it assults those you want to open a discussion with right up front."

I put that statement up as a harsh one and attention grabber to reflect on the fact that the choice between Rudy and Hillary is that clear cut. If the match-up comes to pass and after careful thought the choice is not obvious then that is my assessment. Before I explain, I want to be clear this statement is in no way applicable to anyone at this time.

Now my brief explanation as to why I believe this statement holds and despite what you wrote I have a belief that you might agree at some point in the future. I fully expect you to disagree right now. You are not faced with the realities of the choice.

The language of the statement is not reflective in any way of the discussion that I want to pursue in presenting my case. It is more of a reflection of strong anti- Hillary statement and is reflective of disbelief that any conservative can think to not walk thru broken glass to stop Hillary.

I intend on presenting only intelligent discourse. Since you asked, I will highlight some of the major points why they are different.

First and foremost is ethics. The Clinton administration is arguably the most crooked. Hillary was probably more involved than her husband. Here is a list of some.
- Lying to a grand jury. It is a travesty that this was not impeachable in itself. (This one was all Bill.)
- Pardons - payoff to Hillary's brothers
- FBI files - who doesn't think that info was used. Chuck Colson went to jail for one file.
- Billing Records in the White House
- Large numbers of people taking the 5th in testimony to Congress
- Illegal money donations. Perhaps giving technology to the Chinese.
Hillary Clinton comes from the Big Julie of Guys and Dolls philosophy on ethics who said "I was indicted 31 times with no convictions." Hillary declared her strong ethics by virtue of the special prosecutor concluding that he could not get a conviction.

This ethical concern is at the top of my list. The Clinton administration, with the willing LSM, was effective in dealing with corruption by throwing out the most extreme charges that people made and lumping them in with legitimate issues. This issue is more important to me than any other. For the good of the country, we can not elect such a person.
For me, this issue is sufficient. But there is far more issues.

Judges. Rudy has stated that he would nominate judges such as Roberts & Alito. Politically, he will not be able to falter on this. Rudy has always been a straight shooter. As a New Yorker, I have followed him for years and have much experience with this. The negative that people have brought up is his appointment of judges while he was in New York. However, as pointed out in recent threads on FR, Guiliani was limited in his choice. Rudy's background makes this issue an important one for Rudy. Additionally, his views on crime are in line with the type of judges he would want to appoint. Who will Hillary appoint? Probably the most radical left wing. Look at the Clinton record. While Rudy might have views that strongly differ from yours, his judge picks will far more resemble Conservative philosophy than Hillary's picks. As you know from the Supreme Court, this choice lasts long after the Presidency.

War On Terror. Guiliani has shown he is second to none on this front. He has demonstrated leadership in times of crisis and gets it. We are in a struggle for our safety. The danger is real. The Clinton administration in their appeasement to the Palestinians, treating terrorism as a police action has exacerbated the terrorists and help set the stage for 9-11. Hillary's recent performance gives no confidence in her ability to effectively wage the WOT.

Taxes. Guiliani is more fiscally conservative than Hillary.

Leadership. At this time we need a strong leader. Even you can't question Guiliani's leadership skills. He transformed New York City into a crime riddled city to one of the safest cities. Look at Times Square for noticeable proof.

Team. Would you rather have leftist Democrats.

Congress. What happens if there is a Democratic Congress? This is a possibility for 2008 as the number of senators in play favors the Democrats. What damage to the country can be taken?

Reasons to Not vote for Guiliani.
- A number of issues that you strongly disagree with him is what generates your strong feelings. However, what is the alternative? At worst, Guiliani will agree with Hillary on some items. Is there any one issue where Hillary has a superior position? Not that I am aware of. Lets say that the choice is terrible in this area for these candidates. I would suggest that each person's party will have some influence on what outcomes are enacted. This would result in dramatic differences. I will not get into it now, but I believe that we just stuck with this category itself, the choice would be clear cut but to bolster my point right now lets take the worst viewpoint and label this as no difference.

So here is the choice with the most unfavorable Rudy viewpoint. Lets elect a left wing radical who is ruthless and crooked. Lets screw up the country further for years to come by electing left wing judges. The hell with the WOT. Lets enact all the socialism and let the country go downhill. (By the way the pain would be more than a couple of years.) This is better than electing someone who is strong leader who gets the WOT and has a reasonable change of protecting us better, will nominate far better judges, will probably be more fiscally responsible, have a better team than the left wing democrats but would allow the same poor choices on a number of items that his opponent would.

Hmm, seems like a difficult choice. Not!

If the Rudy Hillary matchup materializes, I will look forward to your rationale. Please do not answer right now as you are not forced to deal with this reality right now and there is no reason for you to accept the Rudy possibility right now. Focus on the primary and I look forward to engaging you in a discussion in the future.


629 posted on 03/04/2007 9:29:51 PM PST by TakeChargeBob
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To: EternalVigilance
Yes, but this is the primary season...and like it or not, Rudy Giuliani is a Republican candidate for the Republican nominee for president. And I'm no liberal.

This is like "Catch 22" here.

"This is a conservative forum - not a republican forum". "Okay, But, I'm a registered republican who votes a straight conservative line". "Yes, but your not conservative enough - go talk on a republican forum". "But, not all republicans are conservatives". "Yes, but all conservatives are republican".

This really is nuts.

This conservative republican needs his beauty sleep. Good night.
630 posted on 03/04/2007 9:30:33 PM PST by aligncare (No, the science is NOT settled.)
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To: supercat
In what ways is Rudy Giuliani superior to Mitt Romney?

Giuliani isn't doing a complete makeover just prior to the election.

If you don't like Giuliani, don't vote for him, because what you see is what you'll get. I lived in Massachusetts while Romney ran for Senate, then became Governor, and now is running for President, and I see very little consistency in him.

Romney's qualifications for the job seem to be that he's telegenic and he says what some conservatives want to hear at rallies. Meanwhile his biggest accomplishment while governor was instituting a small-scale version of Hillarycare.

631 posted on 03/04/2007 9:32:28 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Republican, Bostonian, Bush supporter, atheist, pro-lifer)
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To: ThreePuttinDude
That's the attitude I think we HAVE to have to survive.

We push hard for conservatives, hold our nose and vote R if in the end we don't succeed in getting our favored candidate.

In my experience, that's how I've always voted, actually. I wish I could really get behind a candidate, but I've never seen one who wanted to lead in a direction I through and through thought the nation should be led.

632 posted on 03/04/2007 9:34:27 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Republican, Bostonian, Bush supporter, atheist, pro-lifer)
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To: supercat

Last response - it's late here on the east coast.

I'm not familiar with the lawsuit. I promise to look into it, though. I do care about the Second Amendment. No doubt we will have occassion to discuss this again, in detail. Thanks for informing me about the lawsuit.

I'm seeing double at this point. Good night.


633 posted on 03/04/2007 9:36:37 PM PST by aligncare (No, the science is NOT settled.)
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To: Luke21
Duly noted.

Good night, FRiend.
634 posted on 03/04/2007 9:38:24 PM PST by aligncare (No, the science is NOT settled.)
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To: aligncare
For me the defining issue is quite simple: does he want me disarmed or not? Rudy does want me disarmed and helpless.

Why Did it Have to be ... Guns?

by L. Neil Smith

lneil@lneilsmith.org

Over the past 30 years, I've been paid to write almost two million words, every one of which, sooner or later, came back to the issue of guns and gun-ownership. Naturally, I've thought about the issue a lot, and it has always determined the way I vote.

People accuse me of being a single-issue writer, a single- issue thinker, and a single- issue voter, but it isn't true. What I've chosen, in a world where there's never enough time and energy, is to focus on the one political issue which most clearly and unmistakably demonstrates what any politician—or political philosophy—is made of, right down to the creamy liquid center.

Make no mistake: all politicians—even those ostensibly on the side of guns and gun ownership—hate the issue and anyone, like me, who insists on bringing it up. They hate it because it's an X-ray machine. It's a Vulcan mind-meld. It's the ultimate test to which any politician—or political philosophy—can be put.

If a politician isn't perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash—for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything—without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn't your friend no matter what he tells you.

If he isn't genuinely enthusiastic about his average constituent stuffing that weapon into a purse or pocket or tucking it under a coat and walking home without asking anybody's permission, he's a four-flusher, no matter what he claims.

What his attitude—toward your ownership and use of weapons—conveys is his real attitude about you. And if he doesn't trust you, then why in the name of John Moses Browning should you trust him?

If he doesn't want you to have the means of defending your life, do you want him in a position to control it?

If he makes excuses about obeying a law he's sworn to uphold and defend—the highest law of the land, the Bill of Rights—do you want to entrust him with anything?

If he ignores you, sneers at you, complains about you, or defames you, if he calls you names only he thinks are evil—like "Constitutionalist"—when you insist that he account for himself, hasn't he betrayed his oath, isn't he unfit to hold office, and doesn't he really belong in jail?

Sure, these are all leading questions. They're the questions that led me to the issue of guns and gun ownership as the clearest and most unmistakable demonstration of what any given politician—or political philosophy—is really made of.

He may lecture you about the dangerous weirdos out there who shouldn't have a gun—but what does that have to do with you? Why in the name of John Moses Browning should you be made to suffer for the misdeeds of others? Didn't you lay aside the infantile notion of group punishment when you left public school—or the military? Isn't it an essentially European notion, anyway—Prussian, maybe—and certainly not what America was supposed to be all about?

And if there are dangerous weirdos out there, does it make sense to deprive you of the means of protecting yourself from them? Forget about those other people, those dangerous weirdos, this is about you, and it has been, all along.

Try it yourself: if a politician won't trust you, why should you trust him? If he's a man—and you're not—what does his lack of trust tell you about his real attitude toward women? If "he" happens to be a woman, what makes her so perverse that she's eager to render her fellow women helpless on the mean and seedy streets her policies helped create? Should you believe her when she says she wants to help you by imposing some infantile group health care program on you at the point of the kind of gun she doesn't want you to have?

On the other hand—or the other party—should you believe anything politicians say who claim they stand for freedom, but drag their feet and make excuses about repealing limits on your right to own and carry weapons? What does this tell you about their real motives for ignoring voters and ramming through one infantile group trade agreement after another with other countries?

Makes voting simpler, doesn't it? You don't have to study every issue—health care, international trade—all you have to do is use this X-ray machine, this Vulcan mind-meld, to get beyond their empty words and find out how politicians really feel. About you. And that, of course, is why they hate it.

And that's why I'm accused of being a single-issue writer, thinker, and voter.

But it isn't true, is it?

635 posted on 03/04/2007 9:40:17 PM PST by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: Al Simmons

The Msm will turn and trash Rudy if he gets the nod. There are other candidates out ther who may get the nod and they might not be able to so trash.


636 posted on 03/04/2007 9:44:09 PM PST by TheLion (How about "Comprehensive Immigration Enforcement," for a change)
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To: Jim Robinson
Not this conservative. Count me out!

I could never go for Giuliani. My choice is Duncan Hunter. But, let's face it; our "Conservative Brothers" did us a great disservice in the years from '04-'06 with their corruption, do-nothing attitude and pedophilia. One wonders if the Giulianis of the world would be any worse.
637 posted on 03/04/2007 9:51:14 PM PST by no dems (Duncan Hunter for Prez / Herman Cain for VEEP in '08)
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To: Tarpon

You don't know what a liberal is, obviously.


638 posted on 03/04/2007 11:33:49 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Syncro
You're leaving out the "except for the life of the mother", which was the crux of the problem of the Bill that was passed and why it is still in the courts.

"Some of you" excludes you, if you have not made those statements. But then, you do enjoy nonexistent picking nits.

639 posted on 03/04/2007 11:37:46 PM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons
Giuliani:I've said that I'll uphold a woman's right of choice, that I will fund abortion so that a poor woman is not deprived of a right that others can exercise, and that I would oppose going back to a day in which abortions were illegal.

So there you have it. Rudy supports killing babies. And as an added bonus, he wants to force me to pay for it in direct violation of the Hyde Amendment!

He's a fraud.

L

640 posted on 03/04/2007 11:40:16 PM PST by Lurker (Calling islam a religion is like calling a car a submarine.)
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