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Did we plough up the Garden of Eden?
First Post ^ | October 17, 2006

Posted on 10/17/2006 6:10:35 AM PDT by NYer

An archaeological dig may have uncovered ‘Eden’ in Turkey, says sean thomas

I am standing above an archaeological dig, on a hillside in southern Turkey. Beneath me, workmen are unearthing a sculpture of some sort of reptile (right). It is delicate and breathtaking. It is also part of the world's oldest temple.

If this sounds remarkable, it gets better. The archaeologist in charge of the dig believes that this artwork once stood in Eden. The archaeologist is Klaus Schmidt; the site is called Gobekli Tepe.

In academic circles, the astonishing discoveries at Gobekli Tepe have long been a talking point. Since the dig began in 1994, experts have made the journey to Kurdish Turkey to marvel at these 40-odd standing stones and their Neolithic carvings.

But what is new, and what makes this season's dig at Gobekli so climactic, is the quality of the latest finds - plus that mind-blowing thesis which links them to Paradise.

The thesis is this. Historians have long wondered if the Eden story is a folk memory, an allegory of the move from hunter-gathering to farming. Seen in this way, the Eden story describes how we moved from a life of relative leisure - literally picking fruit from the trees - to a harsher existence of ploughing and reaping.

And where did this change take place? Biologists now think the move to agriculture began in Kurdish Turkey. Einkorn wheat, a forerunner of the world's cereal species, has been genetically linked to here. Similarly, it now seems that wild pigs were first domesticated in Cayonu, just 60 miles from Gobekli.

This region also has Biblical connections, tying it closer to the Eden narrative. Muslims believe that Sanliurfa, a nearby city, is the Old Testament city of Ur. Harran, a town down the road, is mentioned in Genesis twice.

Even the topography of Gobekli Tepe is 'correct'. The Bible describes rivers descending from Paradise. Gobekli Tepe sits in the 'fertile crescent' between the rivers Tigris and Euphrates. The Bible also mentions mountains surrounding Eden. From the brow of Gobekli's hills you can see the Taurus range.

But how does this intoxicating

notion link to the architecture of Gobekli, and those astonishing finds?

Klaus Schmidt (left) explains: "Gobekli Tepe is staggeringly old. It dates from 10,000BC, before pottery and the wheel. By comparison, Stonehenge dates from 2,000BC. Our excavations also show it is not a domestic site, it is religious - the world's oldest temple. This site proves that hunter-gatherers were capable of complex art and organised religion, something no-one imagined before."

As for the temple's exact purpose, Schmidt gestures at a new discovery: a carving of a boar, and ducks flying into nets. "I think Gobekli Tepe celebrates the chase, the hunter-gatherer lifestyle. And why not? This life was rich and leisured, it gave them time enough to become accomplished sculptors."

So why did the hunters of Gobekli give up their agreeable existence? Schmidt indicates the arid brown hilltops. "Gathering together for religion meant that they needed to feed more people. So they started cultivating the wild grasses." But this switch to agriculture put pressure on the landscape; trees were cut down, the herds of game were dispersed. What was once a paradisaical land became a dustbowl.

Schmidt explains that this switchtook place around 8,000BC. Coincidentally, the temple of Gobekli Tepe was deliberately covered with earth around this time.

We may never know why the hunter-gatherers buried their 'temple in Eden'. Perhaps they were grieving for their lost innocence. What is unquestionable is the discoveries made in Gobekli Tepe, in the last few weeks, are some of the most exciting made anywhere in half a century.

Schmidt shows me some workmen scraping earth from a rock relief (left). It is marvellously detailed: it shows scorpions, waterbirds, and river life. I suddenly realise I am the first person other than an archaeologist to see it in 10,000 years.


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anatolia; anthropology; archaeology; biblicalarcheology; catalhoyuk; catalhuyuk; einkornwheat; gobeklitepe; godsgravesglyphs; prehistory; religion; sanliurfa; turkey
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To: Tallguy

Thanks!


61 posted on 10/17/2006 11:47:07 AM PDT by maryz
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To: Vicomte13

In fact a fair number of buglies are considered special treats and are not all that different from eating shrims, crawdads, calmari and the like.

White Oak acorns are sweet, and in North America there are also Beech nuts, black walnuts, butternuts etc..

Generally gatherers spend less time on survival than farmers.


62 posted on 10/17/2006 12:08:00 PM PDT by From many - one.
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To: NYer

What a great find. Doubt it is Eden.


63 posted on 10/17/2006 12:15:56 PM PDT by Dustbunny (The BIBLE - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth)
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To: zot

Ping.


64 posted on 10/17/2006 12:23:03 PM PDT by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: maryz

That the erosion on the Sphinx is from water erosion instead of wind. It is interesting and it would bring a lot of history into question.


65 posted on 10/17/2006 12:36:50 PM PDT by satchmodog9 (Most people stand on the tracks and never even hear the train coming)
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To: pepsi_junkie
"For instance this find indicates a culture which was rooted to a specific geographical location for generations. How did they do that? Did they already have agriculture back then? Was the cresent so fertile that generations of people could live in one spot, gathering and hunting with no effort to replenish and not pick it clean?"
 
One possible reason is that indigenous to the region were 56 different varieties of wild grasses
 
Google that item and you might learn about the classification of "Wheat" as one of those.....
 
I did some googling for this post.
 
Grasses
 
Armenia
 
Even Wickedpedia has info on  Genetically modified food which might be of interest.
 
Google has lots more.
 
I enjoyed this book some while ago that is still available at least at my local Waldenbooks store.
 
 

66 posted on 10/17/2006 12:43:35 PM PDT by Radix (This is my Tag Line.)
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To: NYer
The archaeologist in charge of the dig believes that this artwork once stood in Eden.

I wasn't aware that Adam and Eve had time to sculpt anything before they were driven out of the garden.

67 posted on 10/17/2006 12:45:00 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: NYer

Eden was close to the Afar triangle in Africa across from Yemen. The main city is called Aden to this day.


68 posted on 10/17/2006 12:45:25 PM PDT by tomzz
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To: From many - one.

"In fact a fair number of buglies are considered special treats and are not all that different from eating shrims, crawdads, calmari and the like."

Different enough.

"White Oak acorns are sweet..."

Not that sweet.
And only if you cook them, which is hard to do if you're really in a survival situation. Lighting a fire without matches is hard hard hard. Freeze-to-death-before-you-succeed hard.

"Generally gatherers spend less time on survival than farmers"

And less time on Earth too.


69 posted on 10/17/2006 12:46:18 PM PDT by Vicomte13 (The Crown is amused.)
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To: sandyeggo

I did a search on Strongs for a single mention of Iraq in the KJV!

Results were zero. What was Iraq called (aka) back in your Bible?

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/i/1161114315-999.html


70 posted on 10/17/2006 12:46:54 PM PDT by Radix (This is my Tag Line.)
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To: pepsi_junkie
Hold on a minute. Hunter-gatherers are inherently nomadic. They go where the food is. How could they build a temple of stone anywhere, and what good would it be since they couldn't expect to be in proximity to it much of the time?

I disagree with you it would be quite possible for Hunters to build a temple, and use it on a regular basis. Most nomads travel a circuit that is set by tradition, thus they would visit the site on a yearly or more frequent basis. How many people only show up for services on the high holy days?

71 posted on 10/17/2006 12:59:56 PM PDT by Fraxinus
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To: Inyo-Mono
Anyone who has ever gone hunting knows that it would be a rigorous lifestyle if you had to live off of your kill.

If you could live off of "the one that got away," we'd never would've needed to invent farming :)

72 posted on 10/17/2006 1:01:49 PM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: maryz; Tallguy
That is a conclusion by Professor Robert Schoch that the Sphinx is much older that originally thought, he says about 9,000 years old.

"In 1990, Robert Schoch, a scientist and tenured university professor, traveled to Egypt and conducted geological testing to evaluate the accepted date for the construction of the Great Sphinx of Giza. His research revealed that the Sphinx is actually thousands of years older than previously supposed, a discovery that upended the standard history of ancient Egypt."

73 posted on 10/17/2006 1:04:41 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam; satchmodog9

Thanks!


74 posted on 10/17/2006 1:06:46 PM PDT by maryz
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To: NYer
IMO Not Eden, but a great archaeological find/discovery/dig. hope to hear more info coming out of here.
75 posted on 10/17/2006 1:12:42 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (If a pug barks and no one is around to hear it... they hold a grudge for a long time!)
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To: NYer
Kashmir...most likely where the 'Garden of Eden' was located.

The tree of knowledge, is it still there? If so are the Angels still on guard not allowing anyone to enter in?

76 posted on 10/17/2006 1:17:16 PM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand; but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: Sybeck1

Eden's in Iraq

Exactly


77 posted on 10/17/2006 1:18:35 PM PDT by MaineVoter2002 (If you dont vote on election day, then who are you electing?)
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To: colorado tanker
"Thanks, Blam. S.E. Asia would truly have been a paradise back then, as the Northern Hemisphere was recovering from the last glacial period."

Professor Stephen Oppenheimer's idea from his book: Eden In The East An excellent 560 page read.

" In an exhaustively researched and creatively argued reassessment of mankind's origins, British physician Oppenheimer, an expert in tropical pediatrics, contends that the now-submerged area of Southeast Asia was the cradle of ancient civilization. From time to time, scholars from various disciplines have argued for the existence of a vastly old ``founder civilization.'' Among the most famous was Charles Hapgood, who based his theory of a lost seafaring civilization on his analysis of the famous 16th-century ``Piri Re'is'' maps of the Antarctic land mass. In this tradition, Oppenheimer blends evidence from geology, genetics, linguistics, archaeology, and anthropology to argue persuasively that such a civilization existed on a submerged land mass in Southeast Asia, which geologists call the Sunda shelf. Pointing to geological evidence for the submersion of the shelf by abrupt rises in the sea level about 8,000 years ago, Oppenheimer contends that the coastal cultures of Southeast Asia were drowned by a great flood, reflected in flood mythologies scattered from the ancient Middle East (such as the biblical story of Noah) to Australia and the Americas. According to the author, tantalizing archaeological evidence exists of settlements under a ``silt curtain'' left by the sea floods in drowned coastal regions from Southeast Asia to the Middle East, while linguistic markers indicate that languages spread from Southeast Asia to Australia and the Pacific. The shared flood story is one striking example of similar Eurasian myths according to the author; the ancient Middle East and Asia share other myth typologies, conspicuously including creation and Cain and Abel myths, which point to common origins in a progenitor culture. Absorbing, meticulously researched, limpidly written, and authoritative: should be regarded as a groundbreaking study of the remote past of Southeast Asia, and of civilization itself."

78 posted on 10/17/2006 1:23:05 PM PDT by blam
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To: Inyo-Mono
Anyone who has ever gone hunting knows that it would be a rigorous lifestyle if you had to live off of your kill.

Back when the earth's population was low, there were more animals around. You should read what the Europeans who discovered North America say about the profusion of wild game and fish.

Also, hunter-gatherer types are pooped out old grandfathers at death's door by the time they reach 30. All that excess energy kids have? Among hunter-gatherers, they use it to get food.

79 posted on 10/17/2006 1:28:22 PM PDT by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: sandyeggo

Come on, everyone knows eden is in Missouri!


80 posted on 10/17/2006 1:29:35 PM PDT by dimeadozen
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