Posted on 09/17/2006 8:03:05 AM PDT by Principled
A Battlefield for Tax Reform
There are a few significant battlefields in the war for tax reform. One of them is Free Republic. What makes the Free Republic battlefield significant is that the debate is at the cutting edge. The debate on Free Republic is the most current and most knowledgeable. It is a year ahead of other significant battlefields (radio talk shows, political town-hall meetings, conversations among neighbors and coworkers.)
The trend on Free Republic with respect to tax reform is going to show up in the real world. Free Republic is a tiny segment of the world, albeit a more educated, more politically motivated, more affluent segment than most. Perhaps those are a few of the reasons that Free Republic predicts what will happen in the real world – the world of radio, newspapers, network television, and most importantly - elections.
The choices are
Keep the status quo and continue with our graduated income tax
Eliminate the income tax and implement a flat income tax (although this option has negligible support)
Eliminate the income tax and implement a national sales tax
There are no other options. We are going to have taxes. The only choice is deciding the best way to have them.
Whichever choice you prefer, one thing is clear. The opponents of tax reform on Free Republic will stop at nothing to protect the status quo. Here’s what’s happening on Free Republic (remember it’s a predictor of what will happen in the real world.)
Opponents of reform randomly select perceived problems, however insignificant, and say that’s the reason this reform cannot work. For example, attackers of HR 25 (the “Fair Tax”) have alternately said the rate is too high and then the rate is too low. Whatever seems to get traction is what they stick with. Is it no wonder the perception is that these anti-reformers are not being honest with the reason(s) they oppose the reform. This is why so many question the motives of the anti-reformers. What are they hiding?
The anti-reformers try to make the reform threads so unpleasant that people choose not to participate in them (what does this predict about the real world?)
An anti-reformer may be taking advantage of the positions he he was entrusted with by the site (modertor). By taking sides in threads, berating and belittling pro-nrst posters, by deleting threads, by locking threads, and by moving threads from news/ACTIVISM to “Bloggers and Personal” and to “Smokey Backroom”, the mod(s) in question are taking away from the greatest site on the internet. Sometimes, threads are moved to bloggers and then moved to SBR or vica versa.
Pro-nrst posters are suspended for things that don’t make sense. Anti nrst posters are not suspended for things that should require it - comes to mind the picture of a dog copulating with a pig with the comment “screw you pigdog”… “I found a picture of your parents”. Noteworthy is that the poster of said graphic and phrase were not suspended but rather the recipient of it was suspended for complaining about it.
What does this predict about the real world?
Suffice to say that the debate about tax reform is won by the reformers. The proof is that when educated about the three reform options, the general public chooses the nrst over 70% of the time.
The only question is whether the dishonesty of the anti-reformers will slow the progress of reform in the real world. This is NOT to say that all anti reformers are dishonest - but it is the dishonest ones who are tainting the others.
The good thing about the debate is that the nrst is the most thoroughly investigated alternative - each and every point is debated in complete detail. Problems have been identified and some changes have been made. That's a good thing. And as debate continues, the level of knowledge of any lurkers continues. As I said, I predict over 70% will choose the nrst.
Geez may be busy (or out climbing mountains)
Yep sure was enjoying a nice crisp fall morning, think I dosome more the same this afternoon.
The pinger has been fired and, and I'm headed back out into my hills to enjoy abit o the wildlife ;O)
Good points. I never realized how similar liberals and the anti reformers are in terms of tactics. Naysayers who never divulge a plan of their own all the while complaining about the lack of debate. Makes one wonder what the true agenda is.
I have to take exception to one of your points.
There are plenty of Republican who even call themselves conservatives who love the government gravy train and think that the 'compasssion' of big government is a good thing. It's not just the self identified liberals and democrats anymore who want big government.
What you said was closer to being accurate just 6 years ago but many Republicans now buy into the compassion of big government made popular by GWB and glombed onto by Rick Santorum.
Have you now dropped support of whatever your "flat tax" might have been which you could never disclose???
Nice spin. Did you come up with that as you were circling the drain?
Are you saying HR.25 has been modified?
Oh, do tell us where ...
There you have it sports fans; -- one side calls for debate "-- in complete detail --".One side calls for debate, but never lets real debate happen. Funny, isn't it.
Next to the income tax which has the most support in DC, the FairTax has the most support with 60 members of congress having signed on as sponsors or co-sponsors. No other tax reform bill comes remotely close to that many sponsors. It think one bill for a flat tax has three or four sponsors.And that's gotten you what, exactly? Nothing. Hell, when then Senate Finance Committee held it "kick off" for tax reform, the FairTax was only mentioned once and that was to say it was a "nonstarter." What wonderful support y'all have.
If anyone want to know why there's no real debate about tax reform on FR, just check out this thread. If you don't agree with the FairTaxers, your motives are immediately brought into question. Nice way to debate, huh?
Fair Tax ping!
You're the one who claimed to support some (unknown) version of a flat tax ...I never claimed to support any version of any bill. So what? If tax reform is to happen, the bill hasn't been written. You couldn't accept that so you had to try your usual ridicule.
The other side claims: "-- They consume so much of the debate and are so vehement in their support --", that they ensure no real debate or reform.
One side calls for debate, but never lets real debate happen. Funny, isn't it.
Some one here is stopping you from "real debate"? -- Now that's a funny concept.
There are people on FR that insist that the mods stop their opponents "from posting to or about" them; -- has anyone on the fairtax side done that to you?
There are people on FR that insist that the mods stop their opponents "from posting to or about" them; -- has anyone on the fairtax side done that to you?No. But what does that have to do with anything? You don't think they asked people not to post to them because of their great debating skills, do you?
The good thing about the debate is that the nrst is the most thoroughly investigated alternative - each and every point is debated in complete detail.
Problems have been identified and some changes have been made.
That's a good thing. And as debate continues, the level of knowledge of any lurkers continues.
Your Nightmare replied:
-- the most "anti-tax reform" people I've seen on FR are the FairTaxers.
They have refused to let any serious reform be discussed and have dogmatically promoted their FairTax plan which is an absolute nonstarter in Washington.
They consume so much of the debate and are so vehement in their support that they ensure no real tax reform can be accomplished.
Your Nightmare writes again, in defense of his own words quoted just above:
If anyone want to know why there's no real debate about tax reform on FR, just check out this thread. If you don't agree with the FairTaxers, your motives are immediately brought into question. Nice way to debate, huh?
I submit that your initial post above tells the tale about debating 'motives'..
You very actions like that are why the term "Nightmare Tax" came into being.
The other side claims: "-- They consume so much of the debate and are so vehement in their support --", that they ensure no real debate or reform.
One side calls for debate, but never lets real debate happen. Funny, isn't it.
Some one here is stopping you from "real debate"? -- Now that's a funny concept.
There are people on FR that insist that the mods stop their opponents "from posting to or about" them; -- has anyone on the fairtax side done that to you?
No. But what does that have to do with anything?
You 'boldly' raised that exact issue just above.
You don't think they asked people not to post to them because of their great debating skills, do you?
Those that can't rationally defend their positions often do exactly that. -- They erroneously claim their opposition is making a personal attack, and demand that the mods protect them.. -- 'Funny' tactic, isn't it?
Sure kills "real debate".
They erroneously claim their opposition is making a personal attack, and demand that the mods protect them..And it's up to the Mods to determine if there was really a personal attack and, if so, warn or ban that person. Know anyone who's been warned or banned?
In fact, one of your clan (tying to support his claims to get me banned) even claimed I showed him to be a wooly sheep frolicking in a green field in Georgia. Oh, the horror!!! And this was the guy posting a clearly obscene post to me (which of course isn't obscene on his side of the fence)!
I guess that's easier than debating the FairTax. eh???
Well said indeed!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.