Skip to comments.A Battlefield for Tax Reform - Vanity
Posted on 09/17/2006 8:03:05 AM PDT by Principled
A Battlefield for Tax Reform
There are a few significant battlefields in the war for tax reform. One of them is Free Republic. What makes the Free Republic battlefield significant is that the debate is at the cutting edge. The debate on Free Republic is the most current and most knowledgeable. It is a year ahead of other significant battlefields (radio talk shows, political town-hall meetings, conversations among neighbors and coworkers.)
The trend on Free Republic with respect to tax reform is going to show up in the real world. Free Republic is a tiny segment of the world, albeit a more educated, more politically motivated, more affluent segment than most. Perhaps those are a few of the reasons that Free Republic predicts what will happen in the real world the world of radio, newspapers, network television, and most importantly - elections.
The choices are
Keep the status quo and continue with our graduated income tax
Eliminate the income tax and implement a flat income tax (although this option has negligible support)
Eliminate the income tax and implement a national sales tax
There are no other options. We are going to have taxes. The only choice is deciding the best way to have them.
Whichever choice you prefer, one thing is clear. The opponents of tax reform on Free Republic will stop at nothing to protect the status quo. Heres whats happening on Free Republic (remember its a predictor of what will happen in the real world.)
Opponents of reform randomly select perceived problems, however insignificant, and say thats the reason this reform cannot work. For example, attackers of HR 25 (the Fair Tax) have alternately said the rate is too high and then the rate is too low. Whatever seems to get traction is what they stick with. Is it no wonder the perception is that these anti-reformers are not being honest with the reason(s) they oppose the reform. This is why so many question the motives of the anti-reformers. What are they hiding?
The anti-reformers try to make the reform threads so unpleasant that people choose not to participate in them (what does this predict about the real world?)
An anti-reformer may be taking advantage of the positions he he was entrusted with by the site (modertor). By taking sides in threads, berating and belittling pro-nrst posters, by deleting threads, by locking threads, and by moving threads from news/ACTIVISM to Bloggers and Personal and to Smokey Backroom, the mod(s) in question are taking away from the greatest site on the internet. Sometimes, threads are moved to bloggers and then moved to SBR or vica versa.
Pro-nrst posters are suspended for things that dont make sense. Anti nrst posters are not suspended for things that should require it - comes to mind the picture of a dog copulating with a pig with the comment screw you pigdog I found a picture of your parents. Noteworthy is that the poster of said graphic and phrase were not suspended but rather the recipient of it was suspended for complaining about it.
What does this predict about the real world?
Suffice to say that the debate about tax reform is won by the reformers. The proof is that when educated about the three reform options, the general public chooses the nrst over 70% of the time.
The only question is whether the dishonesty of the anti-reformers will slow the progress of reform in the real world. This is NOT to say that all anti reformers are dishonest - but it is the dishonest ones who are tainting the others.
The good thing about the debate is that the nrst is the most thoroughly investigated alternative - each and every point is debated in complete detail. Problems have been identified and some changes have been made. That's a good thing. And as debate continues, the level of knowledge of any lurkers continues. As I said, I predict over 70% will choose the nrst.
Can y'all do your pinger thing?
I swear I checked Vanity to post this! Could you move it over there?
IMO, one of the biggest problems with taxes is that most Americans are too dumbed down to understand them. Most Americans don't understand that government, by definition, have no money. The only money that government has is in the pockets of individual citizens.
Confiscatory and predatory taxing practices, such as those that exist in America today, simply exemplify the absurdity of the American tax system.
As long as the tax system maintains the status quo, the divide between the "haves" (Republicans who work and earn money) and the "have nots" (liberals who only want what Republicans have - except for the working part) will only grow deeper. As Congress continues buying base by shifting more and more of the tax burden onto the shoulders of those of us who work, the debate over tax reform grows only more rankorous and more vociferous. As long as we continue to allow Congress to expand the margins of those who don't pay taxes (yet share the "tax cuts") and shift more of that burden to us, this debate has no peaceful end in sight. Remember, this nation was founded on the basis of "No taxation without representation".
Without tax reform, the American past will become its prologue.
There are only three choices in bill form. If there is a bill, or even a group working on your idea, i don't know of them.
IIRC it was tarrifs and excises that the founders preferred.
AMEN! (as i head to church!)
One of the advantages of the nrst is that it requires ALL individuals to pay the same marginal rate.
This unites taxpayers instead of dividing them.
The anti-reformers try to make the reform threads so unpleasant that people choose not to participate in them (what does this predict about the real world?)I'm not sure I remember ever encountering an "anti-reformer" on Free Republic when it comes to taxes. Virtually everyone I've encounter would love to see tax reform.
The anti-reformers try to make the reform threads so unpleasant that people choose not to participate in them (what does this predict about the real world?)Please. The most unpleasant person, by far, on these FairTax threads is pigdog and he's a FairTax supporter. Maybe you should be concerned with your own house before you start worrying about others.
Perhaps he'd like to tell us how superior his Nightmare Tax (one of the many flat tax forms) is to the FairTax point by point?
Perhaps telling us how any flat tax eliminates payroll taxes and reporting all financial (and other) affairs to Uncle - if it does?? Then we can move on to other comparisons.
And, see ... it starts right in again ... the anti-reform trademark!What starts up?
Perhaps he'd like to tell us how superior his Nightmare Tax (one of the many flat tax forms) is to the FairTax point by point?This is a shining example of what FairTaxers consider "debate." There is no such thing as the "Nightmare Tax." This was invented by pigdog in a lame - and failed - attempt to ridicule me.
If it's not broken, don't fix it.
For a hundred years congress has been tinkering with the tax code. The income tax is perpetually broken. Instead of getting fixed it has become increasingly more broken. President Regan accomplish a major fix of a broken income tax that took seventy years to decline to such a broken state. It has taken just twenty years to undo Regan's fix and break the income tax far worse than before his fix.
It appears the only people capable of permanently fixing the way taxes are collected is the people, not politicians and bureaucrats. The FairTax grassroots movement is by The People for The People.
The good thing about the debate is that the nrst is the most thoroughly investigated alternative - each and every point is debated in complete detail.
Problems have been identified and some changes have been made.
That's a good thing. And as debate continues, the level of knowledge of any lurkers continues.
-- the most "anti-tax reform" people I've seen on FR are the FairTaxers.
They have refused to let any serious reform be discussed and have dogmatically promoted their FairTax plan which is an absolute nonstarter in Washington.
They consume so much of the debate and are so vehement in their support that they ensure no real tax reform can be accomplished.
There you have it sports fans; -- one side calls for debate "-- in complete detail --".
The other side claims: "-- They consume so much of the debate and are so vehement in their support --", that they ensure no real debate or reform.
I'll go with principles..
FairTax plan which is an absolute nonstarter in Washington.
Next to the income tax which has the most support in DC, the FairTax has the most support with 60 members of congress having signed on as sponsors or co-sponsors. No other tax reform bill comes remotely close to that many sponsors. It think one bill for a flat tax has three or four sponsors.
The forefront of debate in taxreform is indeed on Free Republic.
If anyone would like to be added to this ping list let me know.
John Linder in the House(HR25) & Saxby Chambliss Senate(S25) offer a comprehensive bill to kill all federal income, SS/Medicare payroll, and gift/estate taxes outright replacing them with with a national retail sales tax administered by the states.
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.
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