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Biologist says evolution, religion can coexist
Lawrence Journal World ^ | 9/8/06 | Kenneth Miller

Posted on 09/09/2006 8:39:07 PM PDT by curiosity

“In the final analysis (God) used evolution to set us free.”

Brown University biologist Kenneth Miller used this quote from his book “Finding Darwin’s God” as a central point in his speech about simultaneously believing in evolution and religion.

Miller spoke to more than 500 people Thursday evening in the Kansas Union Ballroom.

He testified for the pro-evolution side in the recent lawsuit against the Dover, Pa., school district, where a federal judge ruled against the district’s teaching of intelligent design in biology classrooms. He said it was creationism in disguise.

Conservatives on the Kansas State Board of Education approved science standards last year that criticized evolution, but after the August primary election, it appears moderates will regain control of the board and eventually reinstate the former standards.

Miller gained several laughs from the audience during his speech as he described the Dover trial, including a scene when intelligent design proponent Michael Behe asked the judge if he could “move the evidence to the side.”

Plaintiffs’ attorney Eric Rothschild had stacked 58 scientific papers, nine books and other textbook chapters on evolutionary evidence supporting development of the human immune system in front of Behe on the witness stand.

Miller said religion and evolution are too often played as opposing forces and incorrectly identified as mutually exclusive. At Brown, a student once told him he could not worship at the university chapel and cited a book that places evolution as the fruit in the serpent’s mouth or a “tool of Satan.”

But Miller said the root of the portrayal of religion and evolution as opposites may come from scientists who have an “anti-theistic interpretation of evolution,” a stance he disagrees with.

“People of faith are shooting at the wrong target. They should not be shooting at evolution itself,” he said.

Miller, a Catholic, said evolution has been remarkably robust in answering criticism through fossil records, the fusing of human chromosomes and other examples.

Instead of attacking evolutionary theory, the argument should be against the anti-theistic interpretation of evolution, he said.

He quoted several scientists, philosophers and religious leaders, including Pope Benedict XVI, who has written: “Even the outcome of a truly contingent natural process can nonetheless fall within God’s providential plan for creation.”

“By understanding the mechanics of this world, what one is really doing is praising and glorifying God,” Miller said.

Miller will answer questions from the public at 10 a.m. today at the Hall Center for the Humanities.

The lecture was the first in the “Difficult Dialogues” series on “Knowledge: Faith & Reason,” presented by the Hall Center and the Biodiversity Institute.

Federal Judge John E. Jones III, who ruled in favor of the Dover plaintiffs, will speak Sept. 26.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: christianity; creation; creationism; crevo; crevolist; darwin; darwinism; evolution; id; idjunkscience; intelligentdesign; pavlovian; theism
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To: VictoryGal
Because if it's possible that God doesn't have a physical resemblance to man, you can't use it as a supporting axiom in opposing evolution.

As they taught me in school; show your work.

WHY is it 'unuseable'?

281 posted on 09/11/2006 1:28:32 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Buck W.
One does not need to hold to the literal inerrancy of the Bible to be a Christian.

So true; but....

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

282 posted on 09/11/2006 1:31:33 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: metmom
Why is OK for them to do it and not others?

HERETIC!!!!

How DARE you question our methods!!?

--EvoDude

283 posted on 09/11/2006 1:33:23 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: VictoryGal
It is possible Axiom P is not true.

Sigh...

It is possible VG is a Muslim bomber-wannabe; therefore what she says can't be used against her in a court of law.


(Makes about as much sense...)

284 posted on 09/11/2006 1:35:31 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: luckystarmom
I don't think they knew about DNA and carbon dating back in the New Testament times.

And we know nothing about the 'things of science' in 2100.

We are SO ignorant!

285 posted on 09/11/2006 1:36:37 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: andysandmikesmom
Good afternoon Elsie...thanks for your Scriptures, you do know I always read them...

I know now ;^)

I hope I haven't been TOO obnoxious in my posting today.

286 posted on 09/11/2006 1:38:17 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: ahayes
These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, a false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. (Proverbs 6:16-19)
 
 
 
(like it makes any difference - except to men.)
 

NIV Matthew 5:19
   Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

287 posted on 09/11/2006 1:41:07 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Theo
Concerning Romans chapter 5: Let me ask you this question: what did Paul intend to communicate in that verse, or better, in that entire section of Romans? He hardly intended to say something of timeless value regarding the theory of evolution. Apart from the question of whether he is talking about "biological death" or "ultimate death" in Romans 5,12-21, the key point is that Paul is not talking about Evolution at all in these verses. Using the reasoning process, "If this, then how much more that," Paul is saying: if death entered via the sin of one person through disobedience, then how much more will life enter through this person's obedience"; and Paul wants his audience to embrace the life given by the risen Jesus.

Here as elsewhere in Paul's letters it is important to distinguish between Paul's principles and Paul's arguments and Paul's rhetoric. It is possible to accept completely Paul's timeless principles and at the same time to recognize that his arguments are conditioned by the level of knowledge at his time.

288 posted on 09/11/2006 1:41:48 PM PDT by Remole
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To: taxesareforever
"I believe that the Bible is the Word of God, period."

If this is your position, then I have two questions: 1. How did the Bible and all its books come into existence? 2. How is your view of the Bible different from the Muslims' view of the Koran?

289 posted on 09/11/2006 1:43:21 PM PDT by Remole
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To: Elsie

>> It is possible Axiom P is not true.

> It is possible VG is a Muslim bomber-wannabe; therefore what she says can't be used against her in a court of law.

It's very simple. Logic 101. Please try to follow along.

Premise A: All leather is made from animal skin.
Premise B: The cover on the book on my dining room table is made of leather.
Conclusion following A and B: The cover on the book on my dining room table is made from animal skin.

If it's possible that the cover of the book on my dining room table is made of vinyl, then you CANNOT use Premise B to prove the Conclusion.

Get it?


290 posted on 09/11/2006 1:50:05 PM PDT by VictoryGal (Never give up, never surrender!)
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To: stands2reason
No, there are not. There is only one God.
 
NIV Jeremiah 2:25-28
 25.  Do not run until your feet are bare and your throat is dry. But you said, `It's no use! I love foreign gods, and I must go after them.'
 26.  "As a thief is disgraced when he is caught, so the house of Israel is disgraced-- they, their kings and their officials, their priests and their prophets.
 27.  They say to wood, `You are my father,' and to stone, `You gave me birth.' They have turned their backs to me and not their faces; yet when they are in trouble, they say, `Come and save us!'
 28.  Where then are the gods you made for yourselves? Let them come if they can save you when you are in trouble! For you have as many gods as you have towns, O Judah.
 

NIV Jeremiah 11:13
   You have as many gods as you have towns, O Judah; and the altars you have set up to burn incense to that shameful god Baal are as many as the streets of Jerusalem.'
 
Oh... Did you mean TRUE God??
 
 
NIV  Chronicles 15:3-4
 3.  For a long time Israel was without the true God, without a priest to teach and without the law.
 4.  But in their distress they turned to the LORD, the God of Israel, and sought him, and he was found by them.
 

NIV Jeremiah 10:10-12
 10.  But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.
 11.  "Tell them this: `These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.'"
 12.  But God made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding.
 

NIV John 17:3
   Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
 

NIV  Thessalonians 1:8-10
  8.  The Lord's message rang out from you not only in Macedonia and Achaia--your faith in God has become known everywhere. Therefore we do not need to say anything about it,  for they themselves report 
  9.  what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God,
 10.  and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead--Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.
 

NIV  John 5:20-21
 20.  We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true--even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
 21.  Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.
 


291 posted on 09/11/2006 1:50:17 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: VictoryGal

But, what if ALL leather is NOT made from ANIMAL skin?

Is THAT possible?


292 posted on 09/11/2006 1:53:36 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Elsie

Now Elsie, you should have known before...

Obnoxious, is not a word I would use...we all have our points of view..I do appreciate your posting Scriptures to counter the teachings of Arnold Murray...just what I was hoping for...thanks...


293 posted on 09/11/2006 1:54:37 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: Elsie

> But, what if ALL leather is NOT made from ANIMAL skin?

Then you couldn't use Premise A to support the Conclusion either.

That's how logic works.


294 posted on 09/11/2006 2:01:42 PM PDT by VictoryGal (Never give up, never surrender!)
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To: Elsie

That's why I originally used the word "really"


295 posted on 09/11/2006 2:03:10 PM PDT by stands2reason (ANAGRAM for the day: Socialist twaddle == Tact is disallowed)
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To: Elsie
Was Paul WRONG about these???

Yes.

296 posted on 09/11/2006 2:11:42 PM PDT by dread78645 (Evolution. A doomed theory since 1859.)
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To: Coyoteman
....Oh yea, well take that:
297 posted on 09/11/2006 2:39:44 PM PDT by csense
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To: Just mythoughts
There is no other interpretation of evolution except "anti-theistic".

I disagree. Most of what passes for evolution today is colored by the anti-theistic attitudes of Darwin's supporters. I don't have any problem with the idea of God creating the building blocks of life and putting it on its course, since He would be the One to define what each stage of the Creation would be. Just because it doesn't conform to the Six Day Creation idea, doesn't make it any less possible. After all, who are we to say how long God's days were during this time of Creation? Man was created last, and wasn't around to write down the events as they happened anyway.

298 posted on 09/11/2006 3:21:26 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: SuziQ
I understand that you and others don't have a problem with it, but some of us do, because it diminishes God's words. These are our thoughts just like you have your thoughts, and I wish people on these threads (I'm not talking about you SuziQ) would realize that. To us, evolution is not compatible with what the Bible says, because we believe in the literal interpretation. I think the reason Creationist get so passionate about it is because it (creation, sin, death, restoration) is the very foundation for the rest of the Bible. That's why we think there is no opening for evolution. That's my take anyway.
299 posted on 09/11/2006 3:38:45 PM PDT by Jessarah
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To: Remole

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibleorigin.html

Christians believe, and that includes me, that the Bible was inspired by a "living" God and written by His authors. This differs from the Koran which was written by a man who is dead and gave his opinion on what should be in it, depending on what the circumstance was in life.


300 posted on 09/11/2006 5:08:41 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Never forget Matt Maupin)
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