Posted on 08/14/2006 10:17:53 PM PDT by Marius3188
May prove LaSalle explored Mississippi before Marquette
QUINCY - What's certain is that something's written in the stone. What's less certain is whether the markings have any historical significance.
Now, University of Illinois scientists have agreed to examine the limestone slab some believe proves French explorer Robert Cavelier de LaSalle was the first white man to see the upper Mississippi River in 1671 -- two years before Father Jacques Marquette and Louis Joliet made their famous trek.
The foot high, 8-inch wide stone, which was found by a farmer in the early 1900s in Ellington Township north of Quincy, has prompted speculation for decades.
Lee Politsch, 84, of Quincy has been in the forefront of that speculation since he first heard about the stone in 1956, then got permission to study it.
History books widely peg Marquette and Joliet as the first Europeans to explore the Mississippi. But Politsch has spent 50 years arguing that LaSalle happened upon the upper Mississippi two years earlier, and he says the mysterious stone proves just that.
Among the markings on the stone are the numbers "1671."
Politsch told the Quincy Herald-Whig he hopes the university researchers, by examining the Ellington Stone, will come up with hard evidence backing his theory.
The researchers will conduct a variety of tests -- including ones to determine if the stone was actually carved in the 1600s or, alternatively, if it might be a fake.
"If they come back and say, yep, those carvings are about 300 years old, then that would be sensational," Politsch said. "But if they decide that that cutting was done about 1905 or around there, then it's going to kind of take the wind out of the stone's sails."
Even if the researchers manage to disprove Politsch's theory, the effort won't be a waste of time, argued Sarah Wisseman, director of the Program on Ancient Technologies and Archaeological Materials at the U of I's Champaign-Urbana campus.
The researchers will borrow the stone for six months from the Quincy Museum, and they will also present a report of their findings sometime next year.
"Even if we fail to say this is definitely authentic or not authentic, we will have increased the information available about the stone, which, from a museum perspective, means you can tell a better story," she said.
The Quincy Museum's executive director holds out at least a hope of something dramatic.
"If it turns out to be what Mr. Politsch and some of the other researchers believe it is ... it will change our perception of Illinois history dramatically," said Barbara Wilkinson. "It could just be shattering as far as the current accepted discovery of Illinois."
Who is to say he wasn't there in 1681, was feeling mischievous and carved 1671?
Go ahead. Say FIB. I dare you.
Tortured metaphor alert!
Much jealousy among these early explorers.
Current events?
Have at it.
Pre-Inca Ruins Emerging From Peru's Cloud Forests (Chapapoyas)
"The Chachapoya, distinguished by fair skin and great height, lived primarily on ridges and mountaintops in circular stone houses."
Ahem... Isn't "IHS" the acronym for the Latin phrase "In Hoc Signo," meaning "In this sign (conquer)" ?
If the carving was done in 1675, it blows the old thing. Proving "about" 300 years old means nothing. And limestone?? pretty soft stuff.
Thoroughly Modern Miscellany, although the way the week is going, Epigraphy and Language. :')
LOL I usually go with flatlander, though I'll admit, I'm thinkin FIB in the back of my mind. As you know, thinkin something "sinful" is just like doing it. :o]
I work with a couple a Kasekopfs and they think calling me a FIB is insulting. I actually wear it with pride knowing that it means the idea that just being from Illinois bothers the hell out of them.
"Where's the bubbler, eh?"
:^)
It's my understanding that the Latin transcription of the Greek abbreviation for Jesus preceeded all other uses of the monogram.
The use of an abreviation for sacred names is a practice drawn from prehistoric taboos on the speaking of a god's name.
I have thought the IHS and a cross meant "in hoc signo" (under this sign) and the whole phrase was under or in this sign, we will conquer.
You beat me to it. My ancient history course and my Latin are rusty, after 60 years with little occasion for use. I think the story, etc. is this. The Emperor Constantine's mother, Sophia, became a Christian. (It is she who went to Jerusalem in search of relics, and returned with a relic of the Holy Cross according to tradition). And it is she for whom the Basillica of St. Sophia in Constantinople was named (now called Hagga Sophie, or something like that since it is now a mosque in Instanbul). She pressed Christianity on her son, Constantine. He converted after seeing a cross in the sky, and said in this sign we will conquer. Thereafter the Roman Empire shifted from various cults to Christianity.
Kasekopfs? Kopf is head, aber meine Deutsch ist... beyond pathetic. I used to deal w/ flatlanders almost daily, cuz a lot of our vendors & customers are there. Anywere in the country, I could schmooz w/ the best of them. I bet you do more than wear it w/ pride. Prolly closer to rubbing their nose in it. LOL
"Where's the bubbler, eh?"
Ask someone from Rhode Island, der hey. I have no idea how the word skipped past the rest of y'all, but it did.
Oh, BTW... Da Bears still suck. :o)
Kasekopf = Chessehead. So, you got part of it right which is about normal for a head full of cheddar. :^)
Ask someone from Rhode Island, der hey. I have no idea how the word skipped past the rest of y'all, but it did.
I didn't know they used that in RI.
Oh, BTW... Da Bears still suck. :o)
Yeah???? Just wait till next year------
...dar, hey.
Sheesh I thought I heard them all.
I believe Constantine the Great's mother was Helen of the Cross, not someone named Sophia. After her divorce from Constatine's father, she devoted the rest of her life to religious pilgrimages. She was the founder of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher and the Church of the Nativity. According to some legends, she was the discoverer of the True Cross in Palestine.
Sophia refers to "Divine Wisdom" & the current Hagga Sophie's building is credited to Justinian.
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