The timing on this couldn't be better. Perhaps it will wake up the dead christians.
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Posted on 07/25/2006 12:21:17 PM PDT by lunarbicep
IRELAND'S national museum today hailed what it said was one of the most significant discoveries in decades - and perhaps centuries - after an ancient prayer book was found by chance in an Irish bog.
The National Museum of Ireland said fragments of what appeared to be an ancient Psalter or Book of Psalms, written around AD 800, were uncovered by a bulldozer in a bog in the south Midlands.
"In discovery terms this Irish equivalent to the Dead Sea Scrolls is being hailed by the Museum's experts as the greatest find ever from a European bog," the museum said in a statement.
The Dead Sea Scrolls, found in the mid 20th century, are considered to be of enormous religious and historical significance since they include some of the earliest known surviving Biblical documents.
The Irish discovery, recovered from bogland last Friday, comprises extensive fragments of what is thought to be an Irish Early Christian Psalter, written on vellum, a fine animal skin parchment.
"In my wildest hopes, I could only have dreamed of a discovery as fragile and rare as this," Museum Director Pat Wallace said, adding it was not so much the fragments themselves, but what they represented, that was of such "staggering" importance.
"It testifies to the incredible richness of the Early Christian civilisation of this island and to the greatness of ancient Ireland," he said.
The museum said it did not know how the manuscript ended up in the bog.
"It may have been lost in transit or dumped after a raid, possibly more than a thousand to twelve hundred years ago."
Part of Psalm 83, a lament to God over other nations' attempts to wipe out Israel, is legible but the museum said the extent to which other Psalms or additional texts are preserved would only be determined by lengthy work by a team of experts.
Bernard Meehan, Head of Manuscripts at Trinity College Dublin, who was invited to advise on the context and background of the manuscript, said he believed it was the first discovery of an Irish Early Medieval manuscript in two centuries.
Initial impressions placed the composition date of the manuscript at about AD 800, a time of Viking raids in Ireland.
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forgot to tell you about this thread...
The Catholic Church was founded in Jerusalem in the year 36A.D. by Jesus Christ. There was only one Christian Church from the year 36A.D. to 1054A.D., and that was the Catholic Church (after the Protestant Reformation it was known as the Roman Catholic Church). In 1054A.D. the Orthodox and Catholic Church's fell into schism with each other, and it would still be over 500 years until the beginning of the Protestant Reformation.
Ireland and Scotland and to a great extent England followed Christianity for centuries after the fall of the Roman Empire, and the Catholicisation (control by the Pope and adoption of Catholic dates and practices) of the islands was resisted for well over a thousand years.
I take it from that comment that you do not believe Catholics are Christian. If that is true, than you are either really ignorant or really stupid. Do you even know what year the Roman Empire fell? The year is traditionally placed at 476A.D. You wrote St. Patrick started conversions in the year 405A.D. That is completely impossible, especially if the were "Christian for centuries after the fall of Rome" Christianity simply did not spread that far, that fast, and according to the provided dates, it is completely illogical.
The Pope sent Palladius to convert the Irish to Catholicism and the Christians drove him out....Patrick's statue shows him in priest's robes and a fish-mouth hat. That's Catholic revisionism, too.
Seriously, are you retarded?
I suggest you lay off the bigoted sources that you are exposed to, if you even posses the intellectual capability and aptitude to educate yourself this subject matter, before you throw garbage like this out there and go up against someone like myself who knows their history.
Sorry, my bad. To clear up - JH Allen in "Judah's Scepter and Joseph's Birthright" makes the claim that Jeremiah was the father-in-law of Jehoahaz, who was the grandfather (? trying to remember the book) of Zedekiah, which would make these "king's daughters" his (Jeremiah's) great-granddaughters. I find that improbable, considering Jeremiah 16:2. And considering that the two Jeremiahs - there are two in scripture - were from entirely different hometowns - one from Libnah (2 Kings 23:31) and one from Anathoth (Jer 1:1), that makes it even more unlikely that they were one and the same.
These daughters would be of Judah and not daughters of the House of Israel who had already been sent into captivity to the Assyrian king.
Right, which is one of the reasons that British Israelism loses me. They claim that the house of Israel, dispersed among the nations, has given birth to Britain, Scotland, Ireland, America, etc, and also that the "true" line of Judah has been maintained through the British monarchy. They base this claim on the "overturn, overturn, overturn" prophecy of Ezekiel 21:27, which seems more than a stretch to me, for various reasons.
My son has always had an interest in the bog people, so I called him over when I saw this. We read Psalm 83 and his reaction was just, "Woah."
The Catholic Church was founded in Jerusalem in the year 36A.D. by Jesus Christ. There was only one Christian Church from the year 36A.D. to 1054A.D., and that was the Catholic Church (after the Protestant Reformation it was known as the Roman Catholic Church). In 1054A.D. the Orthodox and Catholic Church's fell into schism with each other, and it would still be over 500 years until the beginning of the Protestant Reformation.
= = = =
Hundreds of millions of us find this to be a wholesale rewriting of history as it actually happened into something that fits a rather successful political maneuver within the generic Christian church of the time. The Bishop of Rome won a political battle, vs an anointing.
Patrick preached to the Irish celts in 405 and the conversion of Ireland began. In 431 The Pope sent Palladius to convert the Irish to Catholicism and the Christians drove him out.What odd distortion of history fed that tidbit to you?
He's drawing on Anglican belief. English Protestants have some bizarre belief in a "pre-Catholic" Christianity. Sorry, but there was no such thing. The only church in England was united with Rome - and had the disputes that all local bishops and churches had with Rome - until Henry VIII came along. In any case, any church that is willing to accept Prince Charles as its head (even "temporal head," as some keep insisting) is in serious trouble.
>>What odd distortion of history fed that tidbit to you?<<
I think that was on "Veggie Tales - Sumo of the Opera"
A wonderful, fascinating and thoroughly enjoyable book.
And a theme my grandfather used to harp on.
Have you seen this yet?
The timing on this couldn't be better. Perhaps it will wake up the dead christians.
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I think this is one of the best news stories that I have read in quite some time. Those who seek him , find him...To those of us who believe, This is very uplifting!
Synod of Whitby was 664 A.D.
The thing that gets me is that, that verse, translated from the Hebrew (see JPS Bible online) is nothing like what British Israelism claims it to be.
31 thus saith the L-rd GOD: The mitre shall be removed, and the crown taken off; this shall be no more the same: that which is low shall be exalted, and that which is high abased. 32 A ruin, a ruin, a ruin, will I make it; this also shall be no more, until he come whose right it is, and I will give it him.
I guess one would need know what the "it" is that was to be overturned three times. My guess would be that the "it" is that Stone of Scone, or some call Jacob's pillar that just recently was returned to Scotland.
I've read about it, stuff like E Raymond Capt's "Stone of Destiny" but I'm not sold. Interesting study though - Jacob's Pillar I mean, and the idea that the same rock upon which he rested his head was the same rock from which Moses obtained precious water for the Israelites. Not sure I buy that it is the same one that sat under the British/Scottish throne forever. It might be, but the "proof" seems spotty.
What is pointed to is the future as it is Christ that is to be the He that has the right to "it".
Meaning the throne of David? Agreed. The whole promise from Jeremiah 33, again from the JPS Bible -
14 Behold, the days come, saith HaShem, that I will perform that good word which I have spoken concerning the house of Israel and concerning the house of Judah. 15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause a shoot of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. 16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely; and this is the name whereby she shall be called, HaShem is our righteousness. 17 For thus saith HaShem: There shall not be cut off unto David a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel; 18 neither shall there be cut off unto the priests the Levites a man before Me to offer burnt-offerings, and to burn meal-offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.
I agree with the rest of your post, re Abraham, Esau and Jacob. Sending you freepmail.
What's in YOUR wallet?
Noticed that that happens alot. Here are a couple of the weekday Psalms from last week.
7/21/06
Responsorial Psalm
Ps 94:5-6, 7-8, 9-10, 14-15
R. (14a) The Lord will not abandon his people.
Your people, O LORD, they trample down, your inheritance they afflict.
Widow and stranger they slay, the fatherless they murder.
R. The Lord will not abandon his people.
And they say, “The LORD sees not; the God of Jacob perceives not.”
Understand, you senseless ones among the people; and, you fools, when will you be wise?
R. The Lord will not abandon his people.
Shall he who shaped the ear not hear? or he who formed the eye not see?
Shall he who instructs nations not chastise, he who teaches men knowledge?
R. The Lord will not abandon his people.
For the LORD will not cast off his people, nor abandon his inheritance;
But judgment shall again be with justice, and all the upright of heart shall follow it.
R. The Lord will not abandon his people.
7/19/06
Responsorial Psalm
Ps 48:2-3a, 3b-4, 5-6, 7-8
R. (see 9d) God upholds his city for ever.
Great is the LORD and wholly to be praised in the city of our God.
His holy mountain, fairest of heights, is the joy of all the earth.
R. God upholds his city for ever.
Mount Zion, “the recesses of the North,” is the city of the great King.
God is with her castles; renowned is he as a stronghold.
R. God upholds his city for ever.
For lo! the kings assemble, they come on together;
They also see, and at once are stunned, terrified, routed.
R. God upholds his city for ever.
Quaking seizes them there; anguish, like a woman’s in labor,
As though a wind from the east were shattering ships of Tarshish.
R. God upholds his city for ever.
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