Kerry Pressing Swiftboat Case, Long After Loss ["They lied and lied and lied about everything,"]

New York Times ^

[Sub-Driver]

Kerry Pressing Swiftboat Case, Long After Loss By KATE ZERNIKE

John Kerry starts by showing the entry in a log he kept from 1969: "Feb 12: 0800 run to Cambodia."

He moves on to the photographs: his boat leaving the base at Ha Tien, Vietnam; the harbor; the mountains fading frame by frame as the boat heads north; the special operations team the boat was ferrying across the border; the men reading maps and setting off flares.

"They gave me a hat," Mr. Kerry says. "I have the hat to this day," he declares, rising to pull it from his briefcase. "I have the hat."

Three decades after the Vietnam War and nearly two years after Mr. Kerry's failed presidential bid, most Americans have probably forgotten why it ever mattered whether he went to Cambodia or that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth accused him of making it all up, saying he was dishonest and lacked patriotism.

But among those who were on the frontlines of the 2004 campaign, the battle over Mr. Kerry's wartime service continues, out of the limelight but in some ways more heatedly — because unlike then, Mr. Kerry has fully engaged in the fight. Only those on Mr. Kerry's side, however, have gathered new evidence to prove their case.

The Swift boat group continues to spend money on Washington consultants, according to public records, and last fall it gave $100,000 to a group that promptly sued Mr. Kerry, a Democratic senator from Massachusetts, for allegedly interfering with the release of a film that was critical of him.

Some of the principals behind the Swift boat group continue to press their claims.

[Wristpin]

Just a couple of points...If Kerry actually involved in a mission to deliver a clandestine CIA operative on a secret mission, why is there a unclassified logbook entry about it?

What does the Geneva convention say about political resume pictures of dead enemy combatants?

[TC Rider]

Well, if he's got a hat, we're lost, it must all be true according to him.

He's got a freakin' hat!

How can anyone argue with that?

[joem15]

Hey bud, you got that right.

[joem15]

The "Breck Girl" gives guidance to the "Fairy Boy" and shows him how to spin on his head like a top.

[Raycpa]

The blow up looks odd in a couple of ways. His hand doesn't seem to make sense where it is. Also, his the place where is ear is looks odd too.

[A CA Guy]

He's pressing because he wants to be President or VP.

Did he ever have his military records open to the public fully?

[CedarDave]

VN Freepers: I was only in the "Delta" region once during my time in country, but one of the things that struck me was how flat it was. And he has pictures he shows the NYT of himself at Cap Ha Tien with mountains in the background. Can that be? Or did they arise in the three years between the time I was there and the time he was there? Stranger things have happened, I guess....

You are mostly correct: There are no mountains in the delta. But there are mountains on Phu Quoc island where the Swift Boats were mostly stationed (An Thoi, CosDiv 11). Doing a quick Google search, I came across this excellent link which shows exactly the area and terrain that Kerry claimed was "insertion" into Cambodia. There were repeated patrols on the Giang Thanh River, with Vietnam on both sides of the river. However, Cambodia is only a few miles inland from the river. It certainly is possible that Kerry participated in these patrols, and they may indeed have had special ops types on board at one time or another. But they seem to be ongoing operations and not the special one-time patrol that Kerry touts. I never made it that far south; duty at Coastal Division 11 was not an enviable assignment. I spent most of my time up the coast at Division 13.

[Smartass]

Yep, nothing clear or exculpatory about the photo.

 

[Fintan]

"They gave me a hat," Mr. Kerry says. "I have the hat to this day," he declares, rising to pull it from his briefcase. "I have the hat."

 

[freema]

"Question: Who took these photos? And, I mean, why?? To send home to mother or something? Besides that, I thought this assignment-to-Cambodia was supposed to be a secret mission."

I thought the same thing.

[freema]

His comrades were certainly careful of his big boo-boo, weren't they.

[freema]

Elevator shaft or Marcy Park?

[freema]

Excellent.

[L.N. Smithee]

How many times can you call someone a liar without ending up in court, where records can be subpoenaed?

John O'Neill has never backed down from a challenge to Kerry to sue him, as his supporters encouraged him in August of 2004.

[bitt]

nice pic!

CedarDave, as soon as I read that post about the mountains in the 'secret mission' area, I wondered if we could Buckhead it...thanks for the look-up...

[bitt]

[HawaiianGecko]

This article insinuates Kerry has new evidence, but when one reads the entire article it doesn't document a single piece of evidence, except that he has his old hat.  One guy recanting his previous stance out of 275 is meaningless, especially if he thinks about how many commas are in a billion dollars. Teresa Kerry could tip the guy in a restaurant and set him up for life.

I'd like to know why it took him two years to sign his Form 180, if he really did.  It is painfully obvious that he has had the time to clean up the mess in his records.  Why would someone say two years after losing in a rout... "see my Navy records say I'm a hero!"  When all he had to do was sign his god forsaken name on the form during the campaign to make most of this issue go away when it would count.

 

 

[Sisku Hanne]

Julia Thorne died of cancer.. I felt sorry for her that John dumped her when she was so depressed that she attempted suicide. Luckily she was able to overcome her problem and even wrote a book about it.

It could be just a coincidence, but it seems odd to me that Kerry would bring all this ginned-up "evidence" (which really has no provenance) forward so long after John O'Neill & the other Swift Boat veterans challenged him to sue them or try to find anything they said which would have to be retracted. AFAIK, nothing ever came forth evidence-wise which the Swiftees had to retract.

[Phil Harmonic]

I just looked it up. He signed 3 SF-180s. One for a Boston Globe reporter, Michael K. , one to an AP reporter, Glenn Johnson, and a third to Los Angeles Times reporter, Steve B. (You'd think someone in Kerry's office would have a typewriter, but the forms are handwritten...

This is important. Be mindful that Kerry's records were released to 3 INDIVIDUALS, NOT to the news organizations they represent.

Question #1 to Michael Kranish, Glenn Johnson and Steve B. - Were there ANY pre-conditions demanded by Kerry that were stipulated to by all 3 individuals prior to the release. After they respond to that one, there are several dozen more to go...

[CedarDave]

I need to clarify my comment regarding mountains. You will see references to mountains surrounding Hà Tiên, but from the pictures and topo map I looked at, they are just small hills and nothing like the mountains north of the delta region.