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It's the demography, stupid ..... Mark Steyn
The New Criterion ^ | 2 Jan 2006 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 01/02/2006 12:04:17 PM PST by Rummyfan

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To: potlatch; dixiechick2000


Schroeder was at the Carnegie Deli.....

That size and graphic file does not exist anywhere on the internet or on a cell -- yet -- until today


121 posted on 01/06/2006 9:01:47 PM PST by devolve (<-- (-in a manner reminiscent of Senator Gasbag F. Kohnman-)
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To: devolve

"Schroeder was at the Carnegie Deli....."


I have always wanted to go there.


"That size and graphic file does not exist anywhere on the internet or on a cell -- yet -- until today"


Congratulations!
It is absolutely wonderful!

Leave it to you...;o)


122 posted on 01/06/2006 9:10:06 PM PST by dixiechick2000
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To: King Prout

Wow. What a read. Beyond a "keeper"...

Thanks for pinging me on this one.


123 posted on 01/07/2006 4:04:36 AM PST by RKBA Democrat (Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
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To: expatpat

If those kinds of people are a deterrent, then they would have had an effect in the interim. But it's completely the other way around. There's been Islamic expansion in Euroland, even with the native meanies.

I'm more skeptical that there's a broad enough coaltion to turn things around. And as long as the members of the EU are democratic, that matters. Those in power control things such as immigration levels, and direct the power of the state. What good is being a hooligan if your government decides you're too much trouble, and unilaterally takes your property and throws you in jail?

What we're seeing is the outcome of the centuries long project to try and create the "rational society," by trying to change human nature. They don't believe in natual law, or God's law. To change now, those peoples would have to repudiate their modern history and its "wisdom." Not likely.

What's needed is a firewall between us and them. One such element is kicking the UN off American soil, and putting an end to importing "international law." Let them have their own such institutions, and sink in their EUtopia.


124 posted on 01/07/2006 4:11:56 AM PST by Frank T
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To: Billthedrill

"Ah, the old 'historical inevitability' thing - one reason this is not an issue of the Left is that there are an awful lot of disappointed true believers over there who are still desperately holding out for their own form of historical inevitability, wherein capitalism founders from its own internal contradictions and a new socialist utopia eventuates."

Which is probably why the multiculturalism model arose.

If you devise a system where unassimilatable peoples are given a substancial amount of autonomy in their own communities, in your homeland, you still maintain the overarching power of the state. More foreigners, yes, but the same white ruling class. At least for the time being.


125 posted on 01/07/2006 4:29:28 AM PST by Frank T
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To: darkocean

"The abortions you really DON'T want happening are those taking place because the girl is 17 or 20 years old and doesn't have a reasonable way to think she can raise a child and manage her life at the same time...A rational society should prefer to pay the price for that to paying the price for putting their country under sharia law which, as Steyn notes, is basically the alternative."

Pay that price, with what? It's own money?

The idea is to not tax children out of existance in the first place. Many cities are too expensive to live in, and maintain the standard of living that young parents grew up in.

I am not a scholar and don't pretend to be. But I don't think there was this reproductivity problem before:

1) New Deal/welfarist administrations came into being. The old "everybody's out for themselves" days had more than a replacement rate of child births

2) Abortion on demand. This literally kills off people who would otherwise be contributing to out ponzi-like welfare and entitlement systems.

So I disagree. The solution to this problem is not more socialism and income redistribution. Let two-parent families keep more of their own money by taxing them less.


126 posted on 01/07/2006 4:56:28 AM PST by Frank T
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To: Steel Wolf

"Granted, European countries often exacerbate this problem by failing to thoroughly assimilate their immigrants in the first place. The isolated North African ghettos of Paris are the perfect incubators for radical Wahabbism, even if they are mostly moderate now."

This is what progressives mean when they say don't promote foreign policy that will provote muslims. In this calculus, so called moderate muslim "yutes" will only embrace radical Islam when they have been sufficiently threatened and offended; they have no free will to take Western response in context, and thus they cannot be held responsible for becoming extreme.


127 posted on 01/07/2006 5:03:04 AM PST by Frank T
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To: Rummyfan

......The average German worker now puts in 22 percent fewer hours per year than his American counterpart, and no politician who wishes to remain electorally viable will propose closing the gap in any meaningful way.....

This statement means that Freedom and Democracy are self destructive. In the long run people will think only of themselves and not make the hard decisions necessary for the long haul.

The essay is proof of the inability of democracy to be sustained over the historical long haul. To maintain democracy there must be blood of the selfish left spilled in the streets.


128 posted on 01/07/2006 5:29:26 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. Slay Pinch)
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To: expatpat

Unfortunately, they aren't having babies at a rate that will allow them to win. They may struggle when the inevitable finally becomes clear to them, but it will be the gasps of a dying culture. What a shame. (no sarcasm)


129 posted on 01/07/2006 5:32:41 AM PST by prairiebreeze (Take the high road. You'll never have to meet a Democrat.)
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To: governsleastgovernsbest

Scary, depressing read, but hopefully one that will rally people to thought and action.

...Agree...I'm going to convince the wife that we need to make another baby to save western civilization...Step 1 is to convince her to read this article...that's the ticket...it will put her in the mood.


130 posted on 01/07/2006 5:39:47 AM PST by UltraKonservativen (( YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!!!))
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To: expatpat

"May I remind you that the same could be said of the Brits in the late 30's, but when their homeland was threatened, they became ferocious, if under-armed. Never underestimate a people fighting on/near their own territory -- remember the Vietnamese."

Good point.

The question is whether western Europeans have the same dogged willpower?

What we see from their ruling class is the desire to explicitly end traditional Western civilization. They may welcome Islamism as a weapon to kill off remaining "right wing" power. I am sure these people are rationalizing the situation, believing that more appeasement will somehow win over intransigent muslim immigrants and their community leaders.

A bridge too far, indeed!


131 posted on 01/07/2006 6:16:45 AM PST by Frank T
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To: Frank T
This is what progressives mean when they say don't promote foreign policy that will provote muslims.

They're right.

Liberals don't believe in assimiliation; they believe in multi-culturalism. People have categories they must be lumped into, and they are not permitted to change them simply because they desire to. This stems from a misguided desire to put people and cultures onto an 'endangered species list' status where they are protected, and come to rely on liberals for that protection. You can't have victims if everyone's on the same team, and liberalism needs victimhood to surive.

Unfortunately, in the real world, victims aren't helpless. In the rest of the world, victims can easily become oppressors. It happens all the time. When you keep the flames of discontent burning in people because it helps your political standing, you run the risk of losing control of that fire.

Now, in France's case, it appears that good old fashioned racist/elitist snobbery had a large hand in keeping the Muslims segregated. Still, the bottom line is that the French chose not to force their new immigrants to assimilate, and they now have a growing segment of their population that feels alienated and victimized. A segement of the population, incidentally, that hails from a culture where brutal acts of revenge are commonplace.

132 posted on 01/07/2006 6:28:17 AM PST by Steel Wolf (If the Founders had wanted the President to be spying on our phone calls, they would have said so!)
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To: UltraKonservativen

Yes, I've always found that there's nothing like a lengthy article on demography to put a woman in the mood. Well, that, and perhaps a nice dinner, good bottle of wine, thoughtful gift . .


133 posted on 01/07/2006 6:30:12 AM PST by governsleastgovernsbest (Watching the Today Show since 2002 so you don't have to.)
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To: Alas Babylon!
You're right. The welfare state is one great pyramid scheme--sooner or later, the merry-go-round has to stop. The pyramid has to run out of money. When it finally does run out of money and resources, the wheels come off, as they have in France and Germany.
134 posted on 01/07/2006 6:31:09 AM PST by Uncle Vlad
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To: Frank T
They may welcome Islamism as a weapon to kill off remaining "right wing" power.

Could be. However, they are idiots. The first to be killed will be the so-called liberals, with their love of feminism, atheism, homosexuality and licentiousness, and all the other thngs that the Muzzies hate.

135 posted on 01/08/2006 9:44:39 AM PST by expatpat
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...


136 posted on 01/08/2006 5:56:08 PM PST by Coleus (IMHO, The IVF procedure is immoral & kills many embryos/children and should be outlawed)
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To: expatpat
"There is a hard, nasty core at the heart of the European people"

You got that right, and they're called Germans. I think, I hope that under Merkel they come out swingin'.
137 posted on 01/08/2006 6:12:08 PM PST by Lancer_N3502A
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To: Rummyfan
"Multiculturalism means your kid has to learn some wretched native dirge for the school holiday concert instead of getting to sing “Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer” or that your holistic masseuse uses techniques developed from Native American spirituality, but not that you or anyone you care about should have to live in an African or Native-American society."

Oh, well said, Mr. Steyn!!

138 posted on 01/09/2006 6:11:11 AM PST by SuziQ
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To: Rummyfan
This ten page essay draws together all of the points that Steyn has been going on about for well over a year now. Apparently, the internet has been responsible for spreading this otherwise obscure article all over Europe within a matter of days and it is beginning to provoke attention, thought, agreement and disagreement among opinion shapers throughout Europe.
I believe Steyn's intention was to use his writing skills to force a large segment of Europe's influential opinion shapers to wake up and re-examine their complacent assumptions about the future of "Western Civilization" in Europe.
I believe he has started the process of bringing these ideas into the mainstream and I expect to see more and more essays and books from European authors over the next few years who will start to make the same arguments to the general public.
Once this process begins to translate itself into political platforms, perhaps Europe will wake up in time to avoid the coming bloodbath.
For a mere "journalist", Steyn demonstrates an impressive reach in thought and analysis and, as much as I get a kick of of an Ann Coulter, she can't hold Steyn's pencil when it comes to event analysis and writing skills.
139 posted on 01/11/2006 1:35:22 PM PST by finnigan2
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To: devolve; Aetius; PhilDragoo; potlatch; ntnychik; Czar; Grampa Dave; Interesting Times; Chieftain

Ironic how Europe wanted to beat up our economy with the Euro states. It's like Islam is working for us.


140 posted on 02/10/2006 5:04:16 PM PST by Lady Jag ( All I want is a kind word, a warm bed, and world domination)
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