Posted on 11/15/2005 3:07:35 PM PST by MNJohnnie
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Don't think weakening support of the President by "conservatives" has anything to do with this?
What the hell were they thinking? Do they want to lose? UGGGHhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Except the Warner amendment doesn't include any call for a "war-ending" plan to be revealed.
That is democrat/MSM spin on the amendment.
Read what Ed says about the entire NYT article, and how this doesn't have to be a negative.
Who here thinks we should NOT start pulling out our troops as Iraq takes over their country? Who thinks that 2006 is NOT a transition year? Who thinks that the administration goal is NOT in line with this senate resolution?
Sure, it takes credit for what is already happening, but that's just politics. There is nothing "wrong" with the amendment. It doesn't usurp any authority from the executive. It doesn't interfere in the planning and execution of the war. It tells the white house what the senate desires, and asks for reports it is due under oversight responsibility.
On the other hand, the Graham amendment today seems to grant some rights to foreign prisoners to access our courts, which is a big change in the balance of power. And McCain's amendment takes something that is now part of a "code" and makes it into a LAW. If it passes, a foreign fighter could request prosecution of our military officers for treatment he receives, and get redress in OUR COURTS.
Surely that is worse than a feel-good amendment like the Warner amendment.
Don't get me wrong. I would have voted NO on this amendment. I wish they had told the democrats to stuff it.
But, assuming that 4 RINOs said they would vote with the democrats (Chafee voted with them on their amendment anyway), and given that this amendment is what the white house is doing, it gives everybody a chance to show the republicans as bending over backwards to get along with the silly democrats.
Let me say this again. The democrats proposed an amendment that Senator Lieberman said "it does send a message that I fear will discourage our troops because it seems to be heading for the door. It will encourage the terrorists, and it will confuse the Iraqi people and affect their judgments as they go forward."
In other words, he said the Democrats were willing to vote for something that would hurt our troops. And he said that because Warner got him on our side with this amendment.
And then 39 democrats voted for an amendment that their 2000 VP candidate said was attacking our troops.
Come on guys, USE IT. Don't play into the democrat's hands by agreeing with them that they thrashed us. Instead, point out that they alienated their own members, that they voted for an amendment that would hurt the troops.
Apparently some of us would rather shoot our own people, then bury the opposition with their own words.
Well I will tell you the blunt truth. Captain Ed is not a very bright guy. I debate him on a local station on his show from time to time. You STAY ahead by telling the Demos "Your amendment is hysteric Propaganda nonsense. We are not wasting any time on your nonsense" You think you stay ahead by SURRENDERING to the other sides propaganda??? WAKE UP!
Which is why we did not need this. This is uneeded and frivolous. The Republicans are being defensive and are sending EXACTLY the wrong message to our enemies...foreign and domestic.
Coburn "this is not coming out of conference"
Yep and 45 that got the Torture Amendment wrong. Please W VETO this.
What a perfect description of this madness.
Herman Cain LOVES COBURN!
Ok, I am forgetting Ronald Reagan's 11th Amendment.
Not one more word. Coburn for Majority Leader!
David Allen White coming up next to talk about the seventh ring of hell....I imagine that gang of 14 members have one way tickets there.
It will be fine with me if it doesn't make it out of committee. I'm just arguing that this is not the end of the world, as Hewitt was saying.
It was just a stupid amendment. The real anger should be for the Graham re-amendment, and the McCain amendment.
I don't support the amendment. I just don't think we should give the lefties any more mileage out of this than we have to. I wrote Warner telling him to pull the amendment, but he didn't listen. Now the amendment is there, lets not make it out to be what the left PRETENDS it is.
It is NOT a victory for them, except as they say it is. The more we AGREE with them, the more emboldened they become.
U.S. Senate pushes for speedier handover in Iraq
Reuters ^ | 11/15/05 | Vicki Allen / Charles Aldinger WASHINGTON, Nov 15 (Reuters) - Showing mounting discontent among Republicans over the Iraq war, the U.S. Senate resolved on Tuesday that Iraqis should start taking the lead in their own security next year to allow a phased withdrawal of U.S. troops. But the Republican-led Senate rejected Democrats' demand for Republican President George W. Bush to submit a plan and an estimated timetable to withdraw U.S. forces, a step Bush has vehemently opposed. The Senate's 79 to 19 vote came days after Bush, facing waning support for the war and the lowest job approval ratings of his presidency, launched an aggressive...
OK, I got a little hot there, especially since I agree with you on the merits of the amendment, just not the effect and meaning.
Here is what Reuter's reported in it's first paragraph:
WASHINGTON, Nov 15 (Reuters) - Showing mounting discontent among Republicans over the Iraq war, the U.S. Senate resolved on Tuesday that Iraqis should start taking the lead in their own security next year to allow a phased withdrawal of U.S. troops. But the Republican-led Senate rejected Democrats' demand for Republican President George W. Bush to submit a plan and an estimated timetable to withdraw U.S. forces, a step Bush has vehemently opposed.
So it sounds bad for the administration, but points out there is no new plan and no timetable. Just an increasing desire that we get out when we can.
I guess I felt better about this than some because I watched the C-Span debate about this last night before the vote, I heard Levin, Warner, and Lieberman.
And you all should read Lieberman's full statement. Listening to him made me feel good, like maybe we could stop fighting over this and all support our troops again. I guess I saw that as so important that it made the rest of it seem trivial.
And Warner certainly denied everything that the people today are saying that this meant. He could well be wrong, I don't agree with him that often, but there it is.
Yes we should bring the troops home WHEN IT IS TIME...
the problem is that this makes it sound like Bush DOESN'T WANT TO DO THAT AND THAT THE CONGRESS IS TELLING HIM TO!
Not ot mention that it also makes the AMERICAN people think this will start to happen before we find out what Oprah wants for Christmas....
For Pete's sake.... It isn't what's in the bill- it is what the media will tell people the bill means....... and it has started already... as they have mentioned.... the WASHINGTON COMPOST IS ALREADY SPINNING THE YARN!
with all due repect.... I feel like I am talking with a wall... but then you aren't really chatting with me- you are chatting with Johnnie, so maybe I should just mind my own intellect....
Boy I am glad Captain Ed explained this is "Victory" other wise I would of been confused reading this. Guess I just had the wrong definition of "victory". Apparently "Victory" is NOW defined as preventing the Democrats from passing something.
WASHINGTON (AP) - The GOP-controlled Senate rejected a Democratic call Tuesday for a timetable for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq but urged President Bush to outline his plan for "the successful completion of the mission" in a bill reflecting a growing bipartisan unease with his Iraq policies.
The overall measure, adopted 98-0, shows a willingness to defy the president in several ways despite a threatened veto. It would restrict the techniques used to interrogate terrorism suspects, ban their inhuman treatment and call for the administration to provide lawmakers with quarterly reports on the status of operations in Iraq.
The bill was not without victories for the president, including support for the military tribunals Bush has set up to try detainees at the prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Yet even that was tempered, with language letting the inmates appeal to a federal court their designation as enemy combatants and their sentences.
The Senate's votes on Iraq showed a willingness even by Republicans to question the White House on a war that's growing increasingly unpopular with Americans.
Polls show Bush's popularity has tumbled in part because of public frustration over Iraq, a war that has claimed
LOL!
It was a spur of the moment thought.. lol...
More like bending over forwards to take it up the butt.
No, that's fine. I agree with you. This will not play well over the next couple of news cycles. But we can't "undo" it.
I'm tired of trying to undo things that I can't undo, so I'm looking at what I can make of what already is.
So I see this as a chance to bash the democrats for 39 votes on an amendment their own VP candidate said would demoralize our troops, encourage terrorists, and confuse our allies.
Isn't that a message we all can sell?
I'll let the Bush administration worry about communicating that it was already DOING this, and already SUPPORTED this, so the amendment was a waste.
I don't see anything in the amendment that would make it necessary to VETO the bill like Hewitt said. It seems that VETOing over this would prove that the administration has no plan, and doesn't want the troops home.
This has been hard because I'm defending the results of an amendment I disagreed with and wrote my senator to withdraw.
They got one chace to win me back. Alito better be sitting on the court by Jan 31,2006.
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