Posted on 11/01/2005 7:25:23 AM PST by pabianice
POTENTIAL HOT SPOTS: France Is Burning
Items About Areas That Could Break Out Into War
November 1, 2005: France is burning. For most of the last week, there have been nasty riots in the Parisian suburb of St Denis, complete with fires and many casualties. This area is home to about 500,000 Moslems. Many largely Moslem suburbs of Paris, and other large cities, have become no-go zones for the police, and anyone who is not of Middle Eastern origin. Over the last three decades, generous social benefits and immigration policies have left France with a Moslem population of some five million (about eight percent of the population.) High rise housing for them was built on the outskirts of major cities. Most of these Moslems did not try to assimilate, and by maintaining their old country culture and language, they made it more difficult for their kids to get jobs. Among the old school customs practiced is attacking, and even murdering, girls who do not conform to a "Moslem" style of behavior. While jobs may be lacking, crime and social welfare payments are not. So peop! le can live without jobs, and make a little extra with some crime on the side. But when you have a lot of people participating in, or just condoning, criminal behavior, you have a very dangerous place for outsiders. Officially, the government condemns this sort of "profiling," but a look at crime statistics shows that high rates of robbery, murder and rape tend to coincide with Moslem areas. There are unofficial maps on the Internet, where French citizens can check about where not to get lost the next time they go for a drive.
Meanwhile, the high crime rates in the Moslem neighborhoods has been spilling over into non-Moslem areas, and there has been a major outbreak of anti-Semitic attacks on Jews, and Jewish targets (synagogues, cemeteries, Etc.). It's not only become embarrassing for the government, but it's become a political issue. So the Interior Ministry has established special police units to try and reduce the crime rate in the Moslem areas. That has led to the recent rioting, arson, injuries, and advice by French traditionalists to just ignore the French Moslems. Leave them alone. Ignore them. Just like France has been doing for decades. Let the counter-terrorism police take care of any hotheads. But for the moment, the Interior Ministry is run by law-and-order types, and they are determined to at least own the streets in Moslem areas. So France burns.
whatever...yawn
People tend to forget why Western nations became so dominant: we are the most proficient at warfare, including the destruction of native societies. France can trace its lineage back to the Gaulic wars, then on through 2,000 years of fighting the English and Germans. Every one of these wars typically involved wholesale slaughter of civilians. The US was espcially adept at eliminating an entire continent of native peoples who stood in our way.
When push comes to shove, PC rhetoric always takes a back-seat to self-interest. And nothing elevates self-interest like the threat to one's personal (self/family/tribe/nation) safety. Concentration camps, reigns of terror, burnings, etc are not just something that one reads about in history books never to be repeated...
As one who still likes Canadians, (not Quebec), in spite of how they feel about the USA, if all you do is hope the numbers stay low you are doomed.
Only forceful action can stop and reverse the problem but it seems very few politicians want to fire the first shot.
That said, it couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch than the back stabbers in the French government. Unfortunately, our government is NOT paying attention and will keep allowing Muslims into America.
They need Cindy Sheehan and perhaps Jesse Jackson over there to help.
ROTFLOL!! Yeah, and I want to see that. They're all helmet. ;o)
Another idiotic post. But who can argue with geniuses who believe Bush to be a "leftist"?
"Anybody who thinks the Frog armed forces are a joke has not been paying attention. They have "intervened" (without bothering to get UN "permission" I might add...) in several little bits of unpleasantness in Africa and done quite well. Don't underestimate 'em."
And right you may be, however, the will has to be there for some severe ass kicking. This comes from the people via the elected officials. What I see presently (from reading) is apathy. I for one, will not support helping Europe with it's next civil war, because it is a problem of their own making.
Let them show some resolve to save their "culture", they have dissed us enough, let them feel some discomfort and we will see if they care enough about their own country to save it.
You will find few, if any, more aware of the threat Islam poses to the world. But our enemy is the Treason Media and the Party of Treason compared to which Islam is just a minor irritant.
As to 911 many of us here knew EXACTLY who did it instantly and why it occurred.
While riots are not exactly an unknown occurence in this country's history I do not expect them to be by Islamaniacs since there are no comparable welfare ghettoes occupied by them here. Those few areas where they are a majority are in no way comparable to those in France. Here the people are not living on the dole in government housing but are workers who own their own homes.
To any who live under the belief that Islam is a true religion I only say "read the Koran" and some history of its founding. It is a fraud through and through created my a murderous thief and pervert.
You will never find me underestimating the danger of this revolting fraud but to blindly equate events in Paris with potential here is just silly.
Why would you post a link to the beginning of this thread?
What is that to accomplish?
You are mixing apples and oranges. My comments are connected to birth rates, not crime rates and violence. The French birth rate is measurable and it is currently 1.9, or just below replacement levels. The question is whether the Muslim population birth rate in France is higher than the "native" French birth rate. The data are not as precise, but there is reason to believe that the birth rate is higher for French muslims. That can be deduced through population figures for primarily Muslim areas. School enrollment and other indicators can be used. I don't think anyone would assert that the Muslim population of France is declining.
But the inability to get enough reliable data to study the problem means, in my view, that we know very little about Islam in Europe.
I don't think your statement is logically consistent. The lack of enough reliable data doesn't mean that we know very little about Islam in Europe. How much is enough? The fact that France doesn't collect data by religion and ethnicity does present a problem because it doesn't allow full comprehension of the extent and nature of the Muslim population in France. But there are measurable indicators, e.g., the number of mosques, population increases in predominately Muslim areas, school enrollment, etc. that can give a general picture of what is happening.
Anyone who has visited France over several decades and has French friends, as I have, knows that there are significant demographic changes taking place. I would say the same thing about the US. We may not know how may illegal immigrants are here, but I don't need detailed data to surmise that there are major demographic changes taking place in a very short period of time.
Oh the Horror, tsk tsk how sad
"This climate could provide jihadists with a large pool of sympathizers and potential recruits. In fact, there is evidence that the problem already threatens French security. In September, French police detained six men under suspicion of recruiting volunteers for combat against coalition forces in Iraq. The recruiting cell operated in the predominantly Muslim Paris suburb of Seine-St. Denis. Other incidents also suggest that Chechen and Algerian militants are operating networks in France.
Because the conditions that have spawned discontent in France's Muslim communities are unlikely to change any time soon, social unrest can be expected to worsen."
trust me China will knock theirs down to 0 when they will it
Eurabia?
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson examines the impact of Europe’s growing Muslim population on a continent that otherwise faces low birthrates and aging populations.
Niall Ferguson is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and a professor of international history at Harvard University.
In the 52nd chapter of his Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Edward Gibbon posed one of the great counterfactual questions of history: If the French had failed to defeat an invading Muslim army at the Battle of Poitiers in AD 732, would all of Western Europe have succumbed to Islam?
“Perhaps,” speculated Gibbon with his inimitable irony, “the interpretation of the Koran would now be taught in the schools of Oxford, and her pulpits might demonstrate to a circumcised people the sanctity and truth of the revelation of Mahomet.”
When those words were published in 1788, the idea of a Muslim Oxford could scarcely have seemed more fanciful. The last Muslim forces had been driven from Spain in 1492; the Ottoman advance through Eastern Europe had been decisively halted at the gates of Vienna in 1683.
Today, however, the idea seems somewhat less risible. The French historian Alain Besancon is one of a number of European intellectuals who detect a significant threat to the continent’s traditional Christian culture. The Egyptian-born writer Bat Yeor has for some years referred to the rise of a new “Eurabia” that is hostile in equal measure to the United States and Israel. Two years ago, Pat Buchanan published an apocalyptic book, titled The Death of the West, prophesying that declining European fertility and immigration from Muslim countries could turn “the cradle of Western civilization” into “its grave.”
Such Spenglerian talk has gained credibility since 9/11. The 3/11 bombings in Madrid confirm that terrorists sympathetic to Osama bin Laden continue to operate with comparative freedom in European cities. Some American commentators suspect Europeans of wanting to appease radical Islam. Others detect in sporadic manifestations of anti-Semitism a sinister conjunction of old fascism and new fundamentalism.
Most European Muslims are, of course, law-abiding citizens with little sympathy for terrorist attacks on European cities. Moreover, they are drawn from a wide range of countries and Islamic traditions, few of them close to Arabian Wahhabism. Nevertheless, there is no question that the continent is experiencing fundamental demographic and cultural changes whose long-term consequences no one can foresee.
To begin with, consider the extraordinary prospect of European demographic decline. A hundred years ago—when Europe’s surplus population was still crossing the oceans to populate America and Australasia—the countries that make up today’s European Union accounted for around 14 percent of the world’s population. Today that figure is down to around 6 percent, and by 2050, according to a United Nations forecast, it will be just over 4 percent. The decline is absolute as well as relative. Even allowing for immigration, the United Nations projects that the population of the current European Union members will fall by around 7.5 million over the next 45 years. There has not been such a sustained reduction in the European population since the Black Death of the fourteenth century. (By contrast, the United States population is projected to grow by 44 percent between 2000 and 2050.)
With the median age of Greeks, Italians, and Spaniards projected to exceed 50 by 2050—roughly one in three people will be 65 or over—the welfare states created in the wake of World War II plainly require drastic reform. Either today’s newborn Europeans will spend their working lives paying 75 percent tax rates or retirement and “free” health care will simply have to be abolished. Alternatively (or additionally), Europeans will have to tolerate more legal immigration.
But where will the new immigrants come from? It seems very likely that a high proportion will come from neighboring countries, and Europe’s fastest-growing neighbors today are predominantly if not wholly Muslim. A youthful Muslim society to the south and east of the Mediterranean is poised to colonize—the term is not too strong—a senescent Europe.
This prospect is all the more significant when considered alongside the decline of European Christianity. In the Netherlands, Britain, Germany, Sweden, and Denmark today, fewer than 1 in 10 people now attend church once a month or more. Some 52 percent of Norwegians and 55 percent of Swedes say that God does not matter to them at all. Although the social and sexual freedoms that matter to such societies are antithetical to Muslim fundamentalism, their religious tolerance leaves these societies weak in the face of fanaticism.
What the consequences of these changes will be is very difficult to say. A creeping Islamicization of a decadent Christendom is one conceivable result: While the old Europeans get even older and their religious faith weaker, the Muslim colonies within their cities get larger and more overt in their religious observance. A backlash against immigration by the economically Neanderthal Right is another: Aging electorates turn to demagogues who offer sealed borders without explaining who exactly is going to pay for the pensions and health care. Nor can we rule out the possibility of a happy fusion between rapidly secularized second-generation Muslims and their post-Christian neighbors. Indeed, we may conceivably end up with all three: situation 1 in France, situation 2 in Austria, and situation 3 in Britain.
Still, it is hard not to be reminded of Gibbon—especially now that his old university’s Center for Islamic Studies has almost completed work on its new premises. In addition to the traditional Oxford quadrangle, the building is expected to feature “a prayer hall with traditional dome and minaret tower.”
When I first glimpsed a model of that minaret, I confess, the phrase that sprang to mind was indeed “decline and fall.”
{quote}"The French people will have no stomach for a civil war, they will both lose. Large areas of France will fall to Muslim control, nuclear assets will have to be secured by outside forces. This is the coming war in Europe.
Political correctness of the Western Left prevents stopping it while it can be stopped."{quote}
Not sticking up for the Froggies but I think the Frenchies would stomach just about anything as far as it has to do with the Islamofacists. They do have one of the harshes anti-terror bill put in place by one of the toughest anti-terror judges around, Jean Louis Bruguiere, and are about to pass an even harsher anti-terror bill come 2007 or sooner.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A17082-2004Nov1?language=printer
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051026/ap_on_re_eu/france_terrorism
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3031640.stm
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/10/26/international/i043930D76.DTL
There is a Paris-based "secretive" alliance task force called "Alliance Base" which is multinational and based out of France - don't know how "secretive" it still is since it made the news - but France was the only country after 9/11 that such a facility could be put in place because of their anti-terror laws.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050703/news_1n3cia.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/02/AR2005070201361_pf.html
I don't know what their angle is in the public arena but behind closed doors its a whole different matter.
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