Posted on 10/23/2005 10:36:47 AM PDT by Crackingham
An Episcopal group has a doomsday plan that calls for ousting conservative bishops and seizing church property if they attempt to break from the denomination over its increasingly liberal position on homosexuality.
The so-called "Day After" plan could kick in as early as June, when the Episcopal Church USA holds its General Convention in Columbus, Ohio, according to minutes from a closed steering committee meeting of the group Via Media.
Joan Gunderson of Aspinwall, who served as recording secretary for committee meeting in late September, said nothing from the strategy session has been approved by the group's leadership.
"The minutes from our meeting were not meant to be public," said Gunderson, who is vice president for policy of Progressive Episcopalians of Pittsburgh, formed to counter the conservative movement in the church. "It's a rough draft, and nothing in it has been finalized. We were just looking at possible worst-case scenarios."
Many in the church are bracing for a possible announcement by conservative bishops during the convention that the Anglican Communion Network be "recognized as the only legitimate expression" of Anglicanism in North America.
The Network was created by Pittsburgh Bishop Robert Duncan and other conservative bishops after the denomination consecrated an openly homosexual man, V. Gene Robinson, as bishop of New Hampshire in 2003.
The denomination also angered many traditionalists by granting tacit approval for blessing services for same-sex couples.
Duncan believes the groundwork being laid to block conservatives from returning the church to its traditional roots is an extreme measure.
"If authentic, and we believe they are, the minutes of this meeting show how far the progressives are willing to go to appropriate what is not theirs," Duncan said. "I trust that the people in the Diocese of Pittsburgh will see clearly who is serving their best interest."
(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...
Join the Catholic Church. Yes, there are some Catholic's who want this so-called progressive change too, but by and large, the Catholic Church is sticking to its origins. Of course, I'm not saying that the Catholic Church has no problems.
No, I'm not Catholic
I am a catholic and I say come home. The latest announcements from the Vatican should make any conservative Christian very comfortable.
"David Virtue has sent this out in his weekly newletter this week.'
It was posted here twice last week. Now we have a newspaper and not David Virtue's group publishing this data. I have no problem with David, and I feel that he has been a great source of info. However, a lot of E's have a problem with David, I used this article with a couple yesterday who have problems with David. They became outraged about the clandistine side of Via Media. If I had shown them, David's article on it, they would have laughed and ignored it.
"Interestingly, it is only the denominations which have property owned by the chhurch organization that are in danger (Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc.) Denominations in which individual congregations own their churches are not bothered. This is what led me to believe that this is more about the money and property than it is about anything else. They are using gay/lesbians as the method to drive people away. The few who are left are easy to steamroll into funding whatever these leftists want to support."
More money and property = power to the perverts.
Exactly right. My former bishop . . . who is one of the ones who went to Lincolnshire with the excuse-makers for ECUSA, and was proposed in the Via Media document as one of their hatchet men . . . has been extensively persecuting the Anglo-Catholic church in Atlanta. He has driven off their rector, and has refused them alternative oversight.
The fact that the church sits on the last sizeable piece of commercial-zoned property in a very hot neighborhood of Atlanta of course has nothing to do with this . . . yeah, right.
We couldn't stand the politics and the petty cruelties any more, we headed across the Tiber where people are still focussed on worshipping God instead of proclaiming that sin is not sin and trying to destroy those who disagree.
We are STILL on the rolls and STILL receiving the Diocesan propaganda rag, despite having told both our former parish and the diocese to remove us.
They want the numbers, if they can't keep us though they'll just lie about it.
Two lesbians who had attended our church in N California for years, asked and then demanded that our priest marry them.
He refused to do so. They went to the Bishop and demanded that he force our priest to marry them. His reply, "That priest has never listened to me before, and I can guarantee you that he will not listen now!"
They left our church and went to one about 12 miles away and the left wing priest married them in that church. As a result some members of that church are now going to ours. In the past two decades that community has been infested with the very rich elite liberals from NY and the LA area.
Our current Bishop is in the process of resigning. It has been a rough time for him since he voted for the dark side perverts. At least one church in his Diocese has left since the vote, and he apparently did nothing to them for leaving.
Ray Charles could have seen that coming!
This former member of the ELCA is now joining the LCMS and happy about it!
If you are from a fairly "high" church, as we were, nothing will seem strange at all. We had what my husband calls the "Come to Jesus Meeting" with the rector, and discovered that our only points of difference were the validity of Anglican orders and the supremacy of the Pope. Since "by their fruits ye shall know them" the orders were a point we were perfectly willing to give up on, and since the problem in the ECUSA stems largely from a total absence of adult leadership, we didn't have a problem with that either.
Now, if you are from a "low" parish you may have problems with such points of doctrine as the Real Presence and the veneration of the Blessed Virgin, but I do not believe those problems are insuperable. Scott Hahn's books may be useful for you.
Many folks are leery about the Catholic Church for non-fact-based reasons -- things (as Will Rogers said) that they have heard that just ain't so. I would at the very least look into it seriously.
This is a book that I have found particularly helpful to those coming from the Episcopal or Anglican churches: This Is The Faith. It was written by the head of the Catholic Missionary Society in England, so it speaks particularly to somebody who is in the Anglican Communion. It IS a trifle old-fashioned, but that will probably give you a better picture of the Catholic faith as a whole instead of the watered-down anxious-not-to-offend materials you get in some OCIA classes.
"In 2003 I left again, after my 6th gay pastor in a row was appointed. Since gays are only 3% of the U.S. population, I felt that this was greatly disproportionate; and the preaching and treatment of the children in the church became indoctrination away from the Bible and towards wholesale approval of homosexual behavior. "
My MIL, who died a year ago this Month, was a life long Methodist like her parents, and their English ancestors like yours were Methodist back in the UK.
Her church in a small midwest farming town had 2 Lesbians forced on them by their Bishops. That drove away so many people, the church had to yoke with the local Baptist church to stay open. Both churches use the old Methodist Church for services and events. For 3 years they have a Methodist preacher and the next 3 years a Baptist preacher.
The last Methodist Preacher, a man of undetermined sexual choices was the last straw for my MIL. One of the first things he did was to remove the American flag in the church and replace it with a UN Flag. He would fly to Cuba to help with the sugar cane harvest. He hated GW in the 2000 elections. She labeled him an outright communist, and he didn't deny it.
She stopped going to church. The Mehtodist preacher never visited he in her home or retirement home inspite of her being born into that church close to 90 years before her death. He left on the normal rotation. The new Baptist minister visited her often in her retirement home and later the nursing home her final year or so.
She told my wife and her brothers that when she died, she did not want the funeral held in the Methodist Church. If the Baptist preacher was still there, he would be good. She did not want any fake Methodist preacher presiding at her funeral. Her wishes were followed.
Miss Marple is correct.
Go to the web site of this article and print out the 3 page article. Give it to your E friends or email it. If they ignore it, don't waste your time with them. Work with the others to correct the problem.
"Ray Charles could have seen that coming!"
The problem is that most of the moderates in our E churches are really blind to this and amazingly a lot of conservatives are. Everyone is so hung up in the liberal don't be judgemental behavior, they don't want to see and recognize real evil.
Yeah, I bet. LOL
Well, I have a 13-year old son and I am not going to do that. I made a stand and made a move, to the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, where the "progressives" feel oppressed.
"It's a good thing!"
- And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Matt. 10:14- And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Mark 6:11 [Emphasis mine]
- And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them. Luke 9:5
- Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you. Luke 10:11
- For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region. But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts. But they shook off the dust of their feet against them, and came unto Iconium. Acts 13:47-51
It's time to shake the dust from your feet and leave that church. Your allegiance is not to that denomination, but to the Savior.
I left the denomination years ago when I started reading the bible and saw how miserably my church had failed me. Instead of teaching me to come out from among the sinful world, it taught me to get along with the sinful world.
- Come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord. 2 Cor. 6:17- From such turn away. 2 Tim. 3:5
- Withdraw yourselves. 2 Thess. 3:6
- And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Eph. 5:11
- Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. Rom. 12:9
- Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 1 Thess. 5:21
Were the sexual orientation of those who voted this gay bishop in ever examined. How could only one gay man move so many others to destroy such a large entity?
My thought is he was the strongest of many, who were closeted and to weak to survive such mayhem.
I believe gays tried to distroy the Catholic Church and yet still may.
Religion is one of the biggest enemies of the gay mafia, a true threat to the nomalizing their lifestyle and stamping it out will be one of their greatest victories.
We even drove Jimmuh Carter out of the SBC!
That should say a LOT for us, eh!
The national assembly's confirmation of the vote in NH to make Robinson a Bishop some two years ago is a symptom of a larger problem in the ECUSA. There is a general substitution of englightement setimentality for true Christian Sentiment. Sure the litergy is kept in its formal form, but the underlying current is all universality.
The largest church (suburban Kansas City in Overland Park/ Prairie Village) in the Kansas Diocese of ECUSA just split last year. They took out a new mortgage to buy their own church. However, it is the only one in all of the Kansas City area.
In the western Missouri diocese, the southern churches from the more conservative parts of the state are the most liberal. This is because the ECUSA is the haven they can exercise power within as the Lutherens and Baptists are far more conservative.
A friend belongs to one of the so-called "Connecticut Six" Episcopal churches who opposed the gay Bishop. The congregation, not the diocese, owns this particular church building but the members aren't certain that the diocese either knows or respects that point. In the event of the diocese trying to come in and take over, there are standing orders with the local police that they are to arrest anyone, bishop included, who is trespassing or otherwise impeding church business. This particular church is loaded for bear, legally speaking, and the diocese had best tread softly.
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