LIVE THREAD - German polls closed: AP: SCHROEDER DEFEATED!

SABC NEWS ^ | September 18, 2005, 08:15

[alessandrofiaschi]

Voting began in Germany's closely fought election today with millions of undecided voters holding the key to a result that will have major implications for economic reform in Europe.

Angela Merkel, a Christian Democrat (CDU) chancellor, is expected to emerge as Germany's first woman chancellor, displacing Gerhard Schroeder who has led Germany for the past seven years at the head of a centre-left government of Social Democrats and Greens.

A provisional result is expected to be announced in the early hours of Monday morning. The final opinion polls published on Friday gave Merkel's centre-right coalition with the liberal Free Democrats (FDP) a slim lead in a race it once dominated.

High stakes For Germany and the rest of Europe, the stakes in the election are high. Some five million Germans are out of work, the country's pensions system is in crisis, its public finances are overstretched and the economy that once drove growth in Europe is now acting as a drag on the rest of the continent.

Analysts say that if Germany succeeds in pushing through reforms, they could be a model for change in the rest of Europe. Surveys show that most Germans believe the system needs changing but they are deeply uncertain about how far the changes should go and how the burden should be shared.

Schroeder's own "Agenda 2010" reforms to welfare and labour market rules have been the most ambitious attempt to overhaul the social security system in decades. They have been attacked by the conservatives and by some commentators as not going far enough. The reforms were bitterly resented by voters. - Reuters

[An.American.Expatriate]

No, already ruled out. Although the SPD is in a coalition in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern and Berlin.

In Politics, nothing is ever "ruled out". IIRC a "coalition" with the PDS was also ruled out at the time, that didn't stop them from accepted the "quiet" support then, and probably won't now...

Oskar knows he has no chance to actually win, and just being a thorn in everybodies side, although in character, is not really his goal. If he quietly supports a left leaning coalition government, he will have far MORE power in shaping the future of Germany than if the CDU/CSU + FDP (+???) where to be in power. A Grand Coalition is also not something he would be wanting - thus, I believe he will support an Red-green coalition. Schröder is so power hungry, he almost certainly will entertain such an offer - especially when the base pushes for it.

PS - I sincerly hope that I am WRONG!!!!!

[Michael81Dus]

You are wrong. The executive committee of the SPD has decided to talk with all parties except the Linkspartei.PDS about a future government. Maybe in four years this is an option, but not now.

[ukman]

> PS - I sincerly hope that I am WRONG!!!!! <

I hope so too - and I think you are! What happens in east Germany states is quite different to what's acceptable at the Federal level.

Oskar will support neither a red-green coalition or a grand coalition, especially as both will continue reforms, albeit at different speeds and with different emphasis. The SPD have also said they will not form a govt. that will depend on being "tolerated" by the Left party.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

"SO, instead they resent us, and don't blame themselves!?"

A large minority of them might, just as a large minority used the Jews as scapegoats. But the majority of Germans never did, neither then nor now, despite their leftist media.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

"If you worry about how your politicians LOOK, you would be a democrat."

Either that, or an Old Media realist. Back in 2000, a lot of the brains thought Forbes didn't stand a chance because of his scarred face. I think that was a major factor in the 2000 primary. Forbes had all the cash needed to win. He had good ideas. [Not as good as the National Sales tax, but better ideas than Bush.] He was backed up by Weyrich and many others. But the 'movers and shakers' were looking backwards. So Forbes was 'out'.

Major Garret is a big time reporter now. God bless both those men. And Garret is, IMHO, proving that you don't need to be a poodle boy nowadays to make it in politics.

On the other side of the coin, there's Hannity. He's got looks and a great memory. Even Boortz is amazed at Hannity's memory skills [and looks]. Bush has looks. It is a plus, even on the right [though I agree it shouldn't be]. But I like to think that brains are gaining ground on looks these days. Regardless, let's not take chances just yet. Hannity/Coulter 2008.

FRegards....

[americanbychoice2]

Michael, I really admire your optimism. this is very rare for the average German. :)
Please do me and yourself a favor though, distrust everything this Weasel says. You can't count on his words. His show on TV after the elections make a psychological illness more than a possibility. The man will do anything for personal gain. Overconfidence has brought you this result, don't blow it now.
Remember: everything is fair in Love, War and politics.

[ExSoldier]

Formatting is our friend....

[Grampa Dave]

"After your ping on the Austrian fund, I bought a bundle.....already up. Thanks a million, will do more on the one here."



It is now down due to the Al Gore and Moi Kerri approach when they lose elections, claiming they really won:

MarketWatch
Market Pulse: German ETF tumbles after election deadlock
Monday September 19, 9:39 am ET
By John Spence


BOSTON (MarketWatch) -- An exchange-traded fund tracking German stocks lost ground in early action Monday after both Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union and Gerhard Schroeder's Social Democrats claimed the right to form a governing coalition in parliamentary elections in Germany. The iShares MSCI Germany Index Fund last lost 2.3% to $19.27"

This shows that the increases this past month were based on Merkel being elected, if she isn't Germany and EWG are a lost cause.

"Winning through financing, a fascinating concept."

When the Spaniards voted in their current pro Islamo, a lot of us pulled the plug on the Spanish etf. Later I pulled the plug on the Italian ETF when they started acting like Spain.

EWA is the Australian ETF and has done fine this past year after Howard was reelected last fall.

When India elected the communists to run India, their stocks dropped about 30% in a day or two. Shortly after getting the message, the election was aborted.

Maybe a similiar response will turn the results of the election in Germany back around.

[Serb5150]

I've always thought that Britain has held onto a healthy skepticism regarding the EU. And you're right, it is time to withdraw. Good luck with this...

[SunkenCiv]

just a one-time reply to all names in this thread (although, I may have missed some because I edited out the duplicates by hand, and I need to stop kidding myself and just get prescription glasses already), NOT A PING LIST. Did not ping the Admin Moderator, because the AM probably came in here for administrative reasons.

Thanks to all for your understanding.

The Road to the Chancellory
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1653925,00.html

According to preliminary results, Merkel's Christian Union parties will hold 225 seats in parliament, followed closely by Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's Social Democratic Party (SPD), which will get 222 seats. The free-market liberal Free Democrats came in at 61 seats, followed by the new Left Party, which is made up of disgruntled Social Democrats and ex-communists (54 seats) and the Greens (51 seats). A late election in Dresden on Oct. 2 could technically still shift the ratio and make the SPD the largest parliamentary faction.

The election has left Germany without a clear option for a government coalition, with three main alternatives currently on the table. The most obvious solution is a grand coalition between CDU and SPD. But a so-called "traffic light" coalition of SPD, FDP (party color: yellow) and Greens is also possible. A third version would be an alliance between CDU, FDP and Greens that has been dubbed "Jamaica coalition."

[.cnI redruM; 1035rep; 30 something american; 68 grunt; AdrianR; Alamo-Girl; Altair333; An.American.Expatriate; Arthur Wildfire! March; airborne; alessandrofiaschi; americanbychoice2; anonymoussierra; antiRepublicrat; asp1; Bahbah; BamaGirl; BeOSUser; Berosus; Bigg Red; BMCDA; BOBTHENAILER; Brad's Gramma; BurbankKarl; babble-on; bd476; bill1952; blam; boomop1; ChadGore; Chi-townChief; cbkaty; cloud8; conservative_2001; Dane; Do not dub me shapka broham; Dog; Doofer; dervish; dreadme; Earthdweller; EDINVA; Erasmus; Erik Latranyi; Ernest_at_the_Beach; ExSoldier; ex-Texan; FairOpinion; flieger; frankiep; GiveEmDubya; GOPGuide; Grampa Dave; Greek; Grzegorz 246; Gumdrop; goldstategop; green lantern; grey_whiskers; HapaxLegamenon; Heartofsong83; Heatseeker; hershey; Jet Jaguar; JulieRNR21; Just mythoughts; Kill Osama; keri; knighthawk; konaice; Lessismore; Liz; LS; MadIvan; Mad_Tom_Rackham; Maynerd; MDspinboyredux; Michael81Dus; Miss Marple; MizSterious; Mon; mathluv; melancholy; mewzilla; moose2004; msnimje; Nix 2; No Blue States; NutCrackerBoy; NYC Republican; NYURepublican; neb52; nicmarlo; OldFriend; PeteB570; Petronski; Politicalities; pbrown; Red6; Redmen4ever; Rider on the Rain; Right_in_Virginia; RockinRight; rebdov; red flanker; riri; Serb5150; SierraWasp; Skylab; SoDak; shield; snugs; spokeshave; sumocide; Torie; Tribune7; Turk2; theophilusscribe; ValerieUSA; Vis Numar; William Creel; WOSG; wolf78; zbigreddogz]

[Just mythoughts]

Thank you and a bump!

[nicmarlo]

Thanks for the update and ping, SC.

I wish it turned out better for the CDU party.

[Red6]

"The election has left Germany without a clear option for a government coalition, with three main alternatives currently on the table. The most obvious solution is a grand coalition between CDU and SPD. But a so-called "traffic light" coalition of SPD, FDP (party color: yellow) and Greens is also possible. A third version would be an alliance between CDU, FDP and Greens that has been dubbed "Jamaica coalition." " Was stated

Boy, what options!

Sell out or sink (Coalition with the SPD/Greens). Merkel will have a hard road ahead.

I sound like such a doom and gloom preacher (Which I hate to be), but I just don't see this ending good for the CDU/CSU/FDP. What Germany needs are real reforms, literally an Iron Lady or Ronald Reagan, but Merkel will have no choice here. Her term and agenda will get mired down.

Red6

[timestax]

bttt

[Schwaeky]

hehe, for a "man", Golda Meir had nice legs in her youth

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[bill1952]

From what I've heard, Dresden is about the same as Philadelphia or Detroit as far as voting goes, and that gives Herr Schroeder the win.

Germany sidesteps and the world goes on.

[bill1952]

instead they whine that socialism/communism/stupidism wasn't "implemented properly."

Followed closely by its America's fault.

They do it every single time, and there have been many times.

[Grampa Dave]

Thanks for the ping.

[Grampa Dave]

The German exhange fund, EWG, has recovered about half of the loss it suffered when Herr Shroeder tried to act like Al Gore yesterday. It is back above what its value last Wednesday.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EWG&t=5d&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=