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LIVE THREAD - German polls closed: AP: SCHROEDER DEFEATED!
SABC NEWS ^ | September 18, 2005, 08:15

Posted on 09/18/2005 12:12:37 AM PDT by alessandrofiaschi

Voting began in Germany's closely fought election today with millions of undecided voters holding the key to a result that will have major implications for economic reform in Europe.

Angela Merkel, a Christian Democrat (CDU) chancellor, is expected to emerge as Germany's first woman chancellor, displacing Gerhard Schroeder who has led Germany for the past seven years at the head of a centre-left government of Social Democrats and Greens.

A provisional result is expected to be announced in the early hours of Monday morning. The final opinion polls published on Friday gave Merkel's centre-right coalition with the liberal Free Democrats (FDP) a slim lead in a race it once dominated.

High stakes For Germany and the rest of Europe, the stakes in the election are high. Some five million Germans are out of work, the country's pensions system is in crisis, its public finances are overstretched and the economy that once drove growth in Europe is now acting as a drag on the rest of the continent.

Analysts say that if Germany succeeds in pushing through reforms, they could be a model for change in the rest of Europe. Surveys show that most Germans believe the system needs changing but they are deeply uncertain about how far the changes should go and how the burden should be shared.

Schroeder's own "Agenda 2010" reforms to welfare and labour market rules have been the most ambitious attempt to overhaul the social security system in decades. They have been attacked by the conservatives and by some commentators as not going far enough. The reforms were bitterly resented by voters. - Reuters


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2005election; agenda; agenda2010; america; angelamerkel; bush; cdu; cducsu; chancellor; change; christiandemocrat; conservatism; conservative; conservatives; economicreform; election; europe; fdp; flattax; generalelection; germanelection; germany; haha; livethread; merkel; poll; polls; prousa; rats; schroeder; spd; usa; vote
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From: Here


Merkel Win Could Kick Start EU Motor

A victory for German conservative opposition leader Angela Merkel in elections on Sunday could provide a kick-start to the stuttering Franco-German motor that has driven the European Union for decades, analysts say. "There's something mechanical today in the Franco-German relationship that needs to be given new legitimacy," said Jean-Dominique Giuliani, head of the Robert Schuman Foundation in Paris. Merkel herself has said the Franco-German motor would continue if she became chancellor, through she stated it would not be an "exclusive" relationship nor one directed against other EU members. Merkel signaled that she would maintain several foreign policy positions, including support for environmental protection and the International Criminal Court -- both issues that align with Chirac's views. She is vehemently opposed to Turkey's bid to join the European Union, which could please Chirac. Initially an enthusiastic supporter of Ankara's bid, he has become more ambivalent on the subject after the French electorate made clear its resistance to the idea. Merkel was also likely to continue the current government's soft-spoken approach on human rights in both Russia and China but stop short of echoing current German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's and Chirac's call to lift the EU arms embargo against Beijing. In the end, though, a long-awaited turnaround in the economic fortunes of the two countries may be the impetus to revive their partnership. "The basis of the problems in the Franco-German relationship are economic in nature," said Giuliani.


1 posted on 09/18/2005 12:12:38 AM PDT by alessandrofiaschi
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To: alessandrofiaschi
Merkel's Fans in Washington

 

Should conservative Angela Merkel sweep to victory in Sunday's elections, it could mean a fresh start for strained US-German relations, according to analysts. After dipping to new lows under Chancellor Gerhard Schröder and his center-left coalition, with differences over Iraq and the partnership linking Germany, France and Russia undermining ties, the relationship seems to have stabilized of late. But a victory by Merkel, an Atlanticist like her mentor Helmut Kohl, could make ties to Washington a lot friendlier. "What is happening in Germany is a catalyst for change," said Rockwell Schnabel, former US ambassador to the European Union and author of a new book on the EU and its contentious relations with the United States. Merkel appears to be "a closer friend of the United States and therefore would lead a policy that would be more pro-American and pro-Atlanticist," he added. Merkel's priorities. After riding a wave of anti-Bush sentiment to victory in 2002, Germany's miserable economic state has forced Schröder to focus on domestic issues in his uphill battle to re-election. Opinion polls show that Merkel, candidate for the Christian Democrats, has a good chance at becoming the country's first female chancellor. But up to 30 percent of the electorate remains undecided. Merkel, 51, has said that one of her priorities if elected would be mending the poisoned relationship with the United States, while still not sending troops to Iraq. Washington is also interested in her aggressive pro-free market agenda. Although Bush officials refuse to publicly comment on the outcome of the Sunday vote, privately they say a Merkel victory  would be a welcome change. "If the administration representatives are honest they'll tell you 'Well this is a fresh start and Merkel's victory would be a good thing'," said Jackson Janes, director of the American Institute for Contemporary German Studies. "We got a lot of leftovers with the Schröder team and we'll probably never be able to change that, so if we get a new team in Berlin it's an opportunity." Others warned, however, that if Merkel wins on Sunday, the Bush administration shouldn't rush to pop the champagne corks. "I don't think that we here in Washington should escalate our expectations that her parameters would be significantly bigger than Schröder's," Janes said. Dieter Dettke, executive director of Germany's Friedrich Ebert Foundation, which is close to Schröder's SPD, in Washington, said that while Merkel would certainly work hard to establish smoother lines of communication with Washington, in substance there could be little change under her administration as far as foreign policy is concerne. One likely contentious issue, Janes and Dettke noted, was Merkel's opposition to Turkey becoming a full member of the European Union which put her at odds with Washington. Nonetheless, analysts say, relations under Merkel are unlikely to be any worse than they have been with Schröder. "I think that (if Merkel wins) there's going to be much more of an effort to say 'let's see where we agree...'," Janes said.   "In the case of Schröder, there was a great deal of concern that they were thinking more about differences rather than commonalities."

2 posted on 09/18/2005 12:16:48 AM PDT by alessandrofiaschi (Is Roberts really a conservative?)
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To: alessandrofiaschi
Parliamentary Elections are also underway in Afghanistan right now.
3 posted on 09/18/2005 12:20:00 AM PDT by msnimje (Cogito Ergo Sum Republican)
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To: alessandrofiaschi

bump


4 posted on 09/18/2005 12:22:28 AM PDT by Doofer
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To: All

5 posted on 09/18/2005 12:32:48 AM PDT by alessandrofiaschi (Is Roberts really a conservative?)
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: Berosus; blam; dervish; Do not dub me shapka broham; Ernest_at_the_Beach; FairOpinion; Red6; ...

ping!


7 posted on 09/18/2005 12:43:13 AM PDT by alessandrofiaschi (Is Roberts really a conservative?)
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To: William Creel

Hey, you better start wishing that the CDU/CSU, FDP win. A coalition of CDU/CSU and SPD is the worst possible case. Merkel will be Chancellor either way.

(The CSU is the sister party of the CDU and runs only in Bavaria.)

By the way, I haven´t voted yet, but was present at the opening of my local ballots. I´m on duty as a citizen voter office helper in the afternoon.


8 posted on 09/18/2005 12:43:55 AM PDT by Michael81Dus (Wir wählen CDU, CDU, wähl auch du CDU, ich weiß jetzt schon was ich tu, was denn sonst - CDU!!)
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To: William Creel

Germany is already in recession (more than 5 millions of unemployed, 0 growth, etc.), but they will never learn "why socialism doesn't work". European leftist media's "fairy tales", always explain that Capitalism is Evil.


9 posted on 09/18/2005 12:46:31 AM PDT by alessandrofiaschi (Is Roberts really a conservative?)
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To: Michael81Dus


FLAT TAX... THAT'S THE SOLUTION!


10 posted on 09/18/2005 12:51:46 AM PDT by alessandrofiaschi (Is Roberts really a conservative?)
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: alessandrofiaschi

The flat tax won´t become reality within the next 4 years. We couldn´t find a compromise within our own party and couldn´t explain a fair system (with the "Freibeträge" - the level of income from which on you pay taxes, e.g. a couple earns 50,000 Euros and each of them has 8,000 Euro Freibetrag, then both pay 25% taxes for 34,000) to the voters within the short time. Remember, we didn´t know that we are voting today just 4 months ago.


12 posted on 09/18/2005 1:01:15 AM PDT by Michael81Dus (Wir wählen CDU, CDU, wähl auch du CDU, ich weiß jetzt schon was ich tu, was denn sonst - CDU!!)
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To: alessandrofiaschi
From the article: "Merkel, 51, has said that one of her priorities if elected would be mending the poisoned relationship with the United States, while still not sending troops to Iraq..."

"...Washington is also interested in her aggressive pro-free market agenda. Although Bush officials refuse to publicly comment on the outcome of the Sunday vote, privately they say a Merkel victory would be a welcome change..."

Merkel is the best hope for Germany and perhaps good for future improved USA relations with DE.

She also is an extremely bright woman.

13 posted on 09/18/2005 1:01:30 AM PDT by bd476
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To: alessandrofiaschi

Here's hoping Ms. Merkel takes the thing and straightens out that section of Europe. Odd that in order to find their testes, the Germans have to turn to a lady.


14 posted on 09/18/2005 1:35:27 AM PDT by SoDak
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To: alessandrofiaschi

"Dieter Dettke, executive director of Germany's Friedrich Ebert Foundation, which is close to Schröder's SPD, in Washington, said that while Merkel would certainly work hard to establish smoother lines of communication with Washington, in substance there could be little change under her administration as far as foreign policy is concerne."

The thing is: Germany isn't a military superpower anyway: No aircraft carriers, few transport airplanes and so forth. What we have more than enough is tanks to defend Germany from a Russian threat that is no longer there.

The largest part of the army is made up of conscripts anyway. So the 5.000 - 10.000 German soldiers that already serve around the world in Afghanistan or on the Balkans, is probably the maximum number one can expect from a German government anyway.

What Merkel will probably not do is sending German soldiers to Iraq. That would be hugely unpopular - and Merkel has already announced that she will pass some other hugely unpopular laws during the first 100 days (one cutting back the German "Kuendigungsschutz", i.e. protection against dismissal and the other limiting the power of the unions). Merkel is aware that there might be politically motivated strikes in Germany, so she is not gonna bring the topic of Iraq on the table as well.

What the US can realistically expect from a Merkel government is two things:

1.) Merkel might be more open to an increase of the number of German soldiers stationed in Afghanistan and a change of the mandate of the NATO troops there, so the US can shift some more troops to Iraq.

2.) Merkel won't backstab - and that is for sure. Not only is her voter base more pro-american (or at least not anti-american), but she finds it important that the "west" speaks with one voice, e.g. to maintain pressure on Iran. Other than Schroeder who only poses in front of a TV camera and tries to play the tough guy, Merkel is far more pragmatic. Her approach would be: "Let's call Jack (Straw) and Condi and talk it over."


15 posted on 09/18/2005 2:26:53 AM PDT by wolf78
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To: SoDak

"Here's hoping Ms. Merkel takes the thing and straightens out that section of Europe. Odd that in order to find their testes, the Germans have to turn to a lady."

But isn't it always like that? If I remember correctly, Ben Gurion once said about Golda Meir (before she became prime minister herself): "She's the only man in my administration".


16 posted on 09/18/2005 2:30:59 AM PDT by wolf78
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To: wolf78

Same thing happened in Britain not that long ago.


17 posted on 09/18/2005 2:37:48 AM PDT by SoDak
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To: William Creel
I couldn't care less about the German economy and she is still not sending troops to Iraq.

On top of that ......she looks a little too butch.

That said , she will still be better than hairless Schroder.

18 posted on 09/18/2005 2:47:20 AM PDT by Earthdweller (Earth to liberals, we were not in Iraq on 9/11 so how did the war cause terrorism again?)
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To: MizSterious; rebdov; Nix 2; green lantern; BeOSUser; Brad's Gramma; dreadme; Turk2; keri; ...
Europe-list

If people want on or off this list, please let me know.

19 posted on 09/18/2005 2:52:12 AM PDT by knighthawk (We will always remember We will always be proud We will always be prepared so we may always be free)
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To: Earthdweller
On top of that ......she looks a little too butch.

If you worry about how your politicians LOOK, you would be a democrat.

Personally I want a politician (to the extent I want them at all) to look like they got their because of their brains.

20 posted on 09/18/2005 3:07:31 AM PDT by konaice
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