Marx Voted Top Thinker By Brits

The Guardian ^ | July 14, 2005 | Charlotte Higgins

[KingofZion]

In a shock result, Karl Marx has been voted the greatest ever philosopher following a poll by Melvyn Bragg's Radio 4 show In Our Time. In the public's poll, which assessed 20 philosophers, Marx, author of the Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital, got 27.93% of the 30,000 votes. In second place came David Hume with 12.67%, followed by Ludwig Wittgenstein with 6.8%. Plato trailed in fifth place and Socrates at eighth.

Andrew Chitty, who, at Sussex University, teaches the UK's only MA in Marxist philosophy, said: "This shows that philosophy should take Marxism seriously. It is possible he won because Marxists organised a mass vote; they're much more organised than Hegelians, for instance.

Article continues...

[familyop]

"By the way, as for Red Ken...the reason why he was elected was because the alternatives were so dire. Most Londoners want a Giuliani, who is wildly popular in London."

Besides being much as Vespasian was in some ways, Giuliani is a radical social leftist. It's no surprise at all that he "is wildly popular" there.

[MadIvan]

Besides being much as Vespasian was in some ways, Giuliani is a radical social leftist. It's no surprise at all that he "is wildly popular" there.

The reason why he is popular is because of "zero tolerance" and the rebirth of New York. He's not well known in this country for social policy. In fact it's only on this site are there people who pay more attention to his social ideas rather than his ideas on local government. Try again.

Ivan

[familyop]

Giuliani is a leftist. Here are some of the facts on that.

http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/Rudy_Giuliani_Abortion.htm

“I’m pro-choice. I’m pro-gay rights,” Giuliani said. He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. “No, I have not supported that, and I don’t see my position on that changing,” he responded.
Source: CNN.com, “Inside Politics” Dec 2, 1999

"Anyone wanting to own a gun should have to pass a written exam that shows that they know how to use a gun, that they’re intelligent enough and responsible enough to handle a gun. Should both handgun and rifle owners be licensed...we’re talking about all dangerous weapons."
Source: Boston Globe, p. A4 Mar 21, 2000

http://www.gothamgazette.com/article/voting/20000601/17/747
"Whereas Giuliani and Mrs. Clinton have similar stances on social issues such as abortion, gay rights, and gun control,..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/01/politics/campaign/01giuliani.html
"A former Democrat with liberal views on abortion, gay rights and gun control, Mr. Giuliani was virtually estranged from his party not long ago, having earned the enmity of many Republicans after endorsing Gov. Mario M. Cuomo, a Democrat, over George E. Pataki in 1994."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/m-news+print+storyid-2772-PHPSESSID-814de17bebb35d2bf7e8a31459927ada.html
Rudy Giuliani: Alienating the Republican Base?

A Registered Democrat For Much Of His Life. [USA Today, 12/20/99]

Bush Campaign Acknowledges Giuliani and Bush's Core Differences. "Terry Holt, the spokesman for Mr. Bush's campaign, conceded that Mr. Giuliani's opposition to a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, his support of abortion rights and his staying with the gay couple during his divorce might alienate him from the party's base. But, he said, 'On the big issue that faces this country, Mayor Giuliani and President Bush walk arm and arm.'" [New York Times, 8/12/04]

Giuliani: Pro-Choice, Pro-Gay Rights. Rudy Giuliani is pro-choice, pro-gay rights and against a ban on partial-birth abortions. When asked to respond to social issues on CNN's Inside Politics, Giuliani replied, "I'm pro-choice. I'm pro-gay rights." He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. "No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing,' he responded." [CNN, 12/2/99]

Conservatives Find Giuliani's Positions Untenable. According to right-wing leader Paul Weyrich, Giuliani's pro-abortion and pro-gay rights positions, "were two things, which the conservative movement really couldn't swallow." [New York Times, 2/04/00, 9/05/02]

Giuliani Criticized Bush on Taxes. "Although Mr. Giuliani is running as a pro-gun control, pro-abortion-rights Republican who likes tax cuts, he did shy away yesterday from the large tax cut proposal of his political benefactor, George W. Bush, which has been criticized as too large and favorable toward the rich." [New York Times, 2/04/00]

Giuliani Hoped for More Inclusive Republican Party. Shortly after being elected mayor in 1993, Giuliani spoke of his hopes for the Republican Party, "Will you press your party to change its platform to allow abortion rights and gay rights?" Giuliani responded: "Sure. I have already. I'd like to see the Republican Party have a broad base, reach out to everyone on the basis of equal rights." [Meet the Press, 11/28/93]

Giuliani Finds New York's Needs Unmet. Just weeks before taking center-stage in support of the President, Giuliani criticized Bush's formulation of homeland security funding, "The formulas are incorrect. And the September 11th Commission also has a point that I agree with very strongly, which is that distribution of this money should be based on assessment of risk." [CNN Wolf Blitzer, 8/8/04]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




Social leftism is worse than a disease that destroys civilized societies. It is preparation for economic leftism.

"Then it will be plain that the first condition for the liberation of the wife is to bring the whole female sex back into public industry, and that this in turn demands the abolition of the monogamous family as the economic unit of society" (Frederick Engels, "Origins of the Family, Private Property, and the State" http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/ch02d.htm).

Mao's Little Red Book on Women
http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Mao/Mao-31-Women.html

Some of Lenin's words on women
http://www.marx.org/archive/lenin/works/1919/nov/06.htm

The following is from the "Manifesto of the Communist Party" (Karl Marx (1818-1883) and Fredrick Engels)
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm

"The bourgeois sees his wife a mere instrument of production. He hears that the instruments of production are to be exploited in common, and, naturally, can come to no other conclusion that the lot of being common to all will likewise fall to the women."

He has not even a suspicion that the real point aimed at is to do away with the status of women as mere instruments of production.

For the rest, nothing is more ridiculous than the virtuous indignation of our bourgeois at the community of women which, they pretend, is to be openly and officially established by the Communists. The Communists have no need to introduce free love; it has existed almost from time immemorial."

“Everyone who knows anything of history also knows that great social revolutions are impossible without the feminine ferment. Social progress may be measured precisely by the social position of the fair sex (plain ones included)” (Karl Marx Letter to Ludwig Kugelmann, MECW, Volume 43, p. 184, http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1868/letters/68_12_12.htm)

[familyop]

And there is no sizable conservative party in Britain. The Conservative Party there is not even conservative. David Irving's friends claim to be conservative, but their evil preferred policies could only be enforced by national socialist government (as seen in Germany and Italy before and during WWII).

[MadIvan]

You are missing the point entirely. People like Giuliani in America and in Britain because of his zero tolerance policies which made New York safe again. This is what he is famous for. Are you seriously that disconnected from reality that you don't want to acknowlege this?

Ivan

[MadIvan]

And there is no sizable conservative party in Britain. The Conservative Party there is not even conservative. David Irving's friends claim to be conservative, but their evil preferred policies could only be enforced by national socialist government (as seen in Germany and Italy before and during WWII).

Now I can legitimately call you insane. The last time I checked, Margaret Thatcher was still supporting and voting Conservative. Now perhaps that doesn't meet your Holy Standards of Conservatism, Oh Keeper of the Holy Script, but it is a sizeable conservative political movement, and the historically most successful political party in Europe.

Ivan

[Atlantic Friend]

"Yours is a hatred that is really grasping to find a rational excuse...typical among the anti-British bigots on this board."

Oddly enough, Ivan, this description fits most of your anti-French posts !

So, if for that reason alone, I agree that the anti-UK sentiment as expressed here from time to time, as the anti-French sentiment also expressed here on a more frequent basis, have more to do with personal prejudice than with any real knowledge of the situation in any of our countries.

[A Jovial Cad]

You've done it now, Op...you keep posting facts! Careful.

[familyop]

Thanks. Here's another good piece on the topic.

Mark Steyn: Tory Toffs Call it Wrong (British Conservative Party, or UK branch of US Democrats?)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1345527/posts
http://www.steynonline.com/index2.cfm?edit_id=22

[JasonC]

Yeah those Hegelians, they are always saying "on the one hand, on the other hand..." lol

[familyop]

"Now I can legitimately call you insane. The last time I checked, Margaret Thatcher was still supporting and voting Conservative. Now perhaps that doesn't meet your Holy Standards of Conservatism, Oh Keeper of the Holy Script, but it is a sizeable conservative political movement, and the historically most successful political party in Europe."

Here's a bit of more honest information about the UK Conservative Party from Conrad's paper. Conrad ("Lord Black" to Britons), who is truly conservative and pro-American, had to be imported to the UK from another country, BTW.

Mark Steyn: Tory Toffs Call it Wrong (British Conservative Party, or UK branch of US Democrats?)
Steynonline (originally The (UK) Spectator) ^ | February 12th 2003 (?) | Mark Steyn

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1345527/posts

[MadIvan]

Oh for the love of God, the Republican Party has its RINOs, you want to use CINOs in the Tories as a stick with which to beat Britain?

This is why I truly despise people like you - you seize on a segment, usually a segment which has a counterpart in America that acts exactly the same way, to damn the entire country. That is bigotry, flat out, pure and simple.

Ivan

[MitchellC]

Was this poll taken at a Street Smarts taping?

[kingsurfer]

In all, the group recorded 532 serious anti-Semitic incidents in Britain in 2004 – more than double the 228 recorded in 1996, and a rise of over 40 percent from the previous year.

___________________________________________________________

All racist attacks have risen in the UK. Muslims are the most discriminated against and attacked, followed by christians and then Jews. Out of 60 million people only 500 chose to attack Jews, hardly endemic. And these people were invesitgated and arrested (and they were neo-nazis and muslims)

The US also has its problems.

http://www.adl.org/main_Anti_Semitism_Domestic/default.htm

You have muslims, christians and neo-nazis who all hates Jews too. Not to mention your academic establishments who supply many of the ISM's footsoldiers.

[endthematrix]

Yep.

[familyop]

Yes, the USA does have its problems.

[endthematrix]

Read your post and it was well reasoned. You came to the table of FRiendship and seems Ivan never showed.

[familyop]

"Muslims are the most discriminated against and attacked, followed by christians and then Jews. Out of 60 million people only 500 chose to attack Jews, hardly endemic."

There is another consideration, though, beyond the majority and government preference for the "Palestinians" over the Jews (see British Mandate, refusals to recognize Hamas and Hizbollah as terrorist organizations, etc.).

Religion        Number (in millions)     % of total population

Christianity        42.079                 71.6%
Islam                 1.59                      2.7
Judaism             0.267                   0.5
Total population    58.789               100.0%

[kingsurfer]

It is sad but true that these attacks happen but I give credit to the Police for getting the people that do these crimes. I think TROP does not help much but it is odd that the neo-nazis hate the Muslims (and vice-versa) but they both hate the Jews. Thank God they are both too stupid to join forces.

[MarkL]

Well, I'll say one thing about Das Kapital... It gives Sinclair Lewis' "Babbit" a run for its money as the dullest book I've ever had to try to read.

What I did manage to read is (IMHO) flawed from its initial concept... While it's been nearly 20 years since I took a "marxist economics" class, as I recall it was horse-puckey from the get-go.

Mark