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Turin Shroud confirmed as fake
The Daily Telegraph (Australia) ^ | June 22, 2005 | AFP

Posted on 06/22/2005 9:55:20 AM PDT by aculeus

A FRENCH magazine has said it had carried out experiments that proved the Shroud of Turin, believed by some Christians to be their religion's holiest relic, was a fraud.

"A mediaeval technique helped us to make a Shroud," Science & Vie (Science and Life) said in its July issue.

The Shroud is claimed by its defenders to be the cloth in which the body of Jesus Christ was wrapped after his crucifixion.

It bears the faint image of a blood-covered man with holes in his hand and wounds in his body and head, the apparent result of being crucified, stabbed by a Roman spear and forced to wear a crown of thorns.

In 1988, scientists carried out carbon-14 dating of the delicate linen cloth and concluded that the material was made some time between 1260 and 1390. Their study prompted the then archbishop of Turin, where the Shroud is stored, to admit that the garment was a hoax. But the debate sharply revived in January this year.

Drawing on a method previously used by sceptics to attack authenticity claims about the Shroud, the magazine got an artist to do a bas-relief - a sculpture that stands out from the surrounding background - of a Christ-like face.

A scientist then laid out a damp linen sheet over the bas-relief and let it dry, so that the thin cloth was moulded onto the face.

Using cotton wool, he then carefully dabbed ferric oxide, mixed with gelatine, onto the cloth to make blood-like marks. When the cloth was turned inside-out, the reversed marks resulted in the famous image of the crucified Christ.

Gelatine, an animal by-product rich in collagen, was frequently used by Middle Age painters as a fixative to bind pigments to canvas or wood.

The imprinted image turned out to be wash-resistant, impervious to temperatures of 250 C (482 F) and was undamaged by exposure to a range of harsh chemicals, including bisulphite which, without the help of the gelatine, would normally have degraded ferric oxide to the compound ferrous oxide.

The experiments, said the magazine, answer several claims made by the pro-Shroud camp, which says the marks could not have been painted onto the cloth.

AFP


TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: archaeology; arrogant; belongsinreligion; bornagainbigots; catholicbashers; catholicsindenial; clothworshipers; eurotrash; frenchapostates; frenchatheists; frenchjunkscience; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; gullibleshroudies; history; ignorant; junkscience; kooks; medievalhoax; postedtowrongforum; protestantbigots; shroudofturin; stiffneckedpride; sudariumofoviedo; talibaptists; veronicaveil
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To: aculeus

If someone chooses to believe the shroud is a fake, they will. If they choose to believe it is genuine, they will. No amount of evidence either way will make them change their minds.


41 posted on 06/22/2005 10:23:59 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: aculeus

Forgive the crass comparison, but I wonder if the same people with a healthy skepticism about the Shroud have the same skepticism about the "Downing Street Memo."

Do the same initial assumptions apply in both cases?

In these types of controversies, what someone wants to believe can be a powerful "thumb on the scale" affecting what they ultimately decide.


42 posted on 06/22/2005 10:25:15 AM PDT by cvq3842
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To: k2blader
You are correct that religion is not the true path to God.

"Religion" is not an entity, but a category. I agree with you that a category is not "the true path to God," for the simple reason that a category is not an entity, but a class of entities, while a path is an entity.

But the claim of some fundamentalists that they "don't have a religion, but a relationship with Jesus" is a lot like me saying "I don't have a marriage, I have a relationship with my wife".

43 posted on 06/22/2005 10:25:56 AM PDT by Campion (Truth is not determined by a majority vote -- Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: ZULU

Do we know the provenance of the Shroud? My impression is that it first surfaced around 1350 AD.


44 posted on 06/22/2005 10:26:29 AM PDT by megatherium
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To: stuartcr; ZULU; William Terrell
What harm is done, if a relic, fake or not, brings someone some comfort or perhaps closer to God?

Exactly. As my late, great, Dad used to respond to my question of : "What's it all mean, Dad"? He would reply: "What ever you want it to mean, Buck"!

In this case it means that people tend to believe what they want to believe. Fake or real. As long as they don't kill each other over it, either way is OK.

45 posted on 06/22/2005 10:26:35 AM PDT by elbucko
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To: aculeus

So if we use non-ferrous oxide would this guy reverse his findings? LOL!


46 posted on 06/22/2005 10:26:45 AM PDT by lexington minuteman 1775
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To: Petronski
The French have "proven" it. Case closed.

This just in... American scientists have proven that croissants are fattening and will kill you!

47 posted on 06/22/2005 10:27:16 AM PDT by GipperGal
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To: aculeus
Well, let's see the "shroud" that these hosers have created? Any pictures of it? Also, does it conform to the photographic negative qualities that the Shroud possesses? Most of the "shroud" copies I've seen made by so-called debunkers have been extremely lame.


48 posted on 06/22/2005 10:27:17 AM PDT by Antoninus (Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini, Hosanna in excelsis!)
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To: k2blader

I think what 1stFreedom is saying is "don't allow "religion" to get in the way of a "relationship" with God.....


49 posted on 06/22/2005 10:27:20 AM PDT by duckbutt ( If you let a smile be your umbrella, then most likely your butt will get soaking wet.)
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To: rwfromkansas
Their faith is a sham based on an object and not faith in the unseen God, that is why.

Who are you to judge?

50 posted on 06/22/2005 10:27:25 AM PDT by Campion (Truth is not determined by a majority vote -- Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: aculeus

Next time I spot an image of Mary in my bowl of chili, I'll ask her.


51 posted on 06/22/2005 10:27:31 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: shroudie; Swordmaker

Ping!


52 posted on 06/22/2005 10:27:36 AM PDT by NYer ("Each person is meant to exist. Each person is God's own idea." - Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: aculeus

This only shows at most that the Turin shroud can be mimicked, not that the original is in fact a fake and was produced the same way.

Not having seen the French 'fake', I suspect it doesn't have the detail of the Turin shroud.


53 posted on 06/22/2005 10:27:36 AM PDT by Miles the Slasher
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To: aculeus

I'm sure they were able to produce the same three-dimensional/negative image found on the shroud too...

/sarcasm


54 posted on 06/22/2005 10:28:02 AM PDT by mike182d ("Let fly the white flag of war." - Zapp Brannigan)
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To: shroudie

Care to swat this one?


55 posted on 06/22/2005 10:28:50 AM PDT by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: highlander_UW

Yeah. Everyone knows that plastic hair, snakefondling, overuse of cosmetics and hairspray and toll-free donation numbers are the true path to salvation.


56 posted on 06/22/2005 10:29:06 AM PDT by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: Campion

True. We all have a religion, and the fundies need to understand they have one just as much as everybody else.

The distinction that is made is the institution vs. more of an individual trust in God.

They need to explain that better.


57 posted on 06/22/2005 10:29:11 AM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=rwfromkansas)
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To: G32
Well, that's that.

LOL!

I'm curious about how the medieval forger matched the blood type (AB, occurring in 3% of the population) with the Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano and the Sudarium of Oviedo. That's a pretty cool trick.

Also, the image-bearing fibers of the Shroud were scorched, not painted.

58 posted on 06/22/2005 10:29:52 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: aculeus

There is a facial shroud in the Holy Roman Archives at Vienna, that is far more likely to be real than the Turin one ever was. The facial features capatured by the Holy Roman shroud are very, very Jewish. The features match a few of the more obscure Christ images I've seen which were painted by Christians native to the Levant, during the very early Middle Ages.


59 posted on 06/22/2005 10:30:05 AM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: Woodworker
"If the French did it, it must be right!"

Well, that idea crossed my mind too - followed immediately by an enormous sarcasm tag.

60 posted on 06/22/2005 10:30:42 AM PDT by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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