Forensic Scientists reveal what Jesus may have looked like as a 12-year old

Catholic News Agency ^ | February 12, 2005

[NYer]

Rome, Feb. 11, 2005 (CNA) - Forensic scientists in Italy are working on a different kind of investigation—one that dates back 2000 years.

In an astounding announcement, the scientists think they may have re-created an image of Jesus Christ when He was a 12-year old boy.

Using the Shroud of Turin, a centuries-old linen cloth, which many believe bears the face of the crucified Christ, the investigators first created a computer-modeled, composite picture of the Christ’s face.

Dr. Carlo Bui, one of the scientists said that, “the face of the man on the shroud is the face of a suffering man. He has a deeply ruined nose. It was certainly struck."  

 Then, using techniques usually reserved for investigating missing persons, they back dated the image to create the closest thing many will ever see to a photograph of the young Christ.

“Without a doubt, the eyes... That is, the deepness of the eyes, the central part of the face in its complexity”, said forensic scientist Andrea Amore, one of the chief investigators who made the discovery.

The shroud itself, a 14-foot long by 3.5-foot wide woven cloth believed by many to be the burial shroud of Jesus, is receiving renewed attention lately.

A Los Alamos, New Mexico scientist has recently cast grave doubt that the carbon dating originally used to date the shroud was valid. This would suggest that the shroud may in fact be 2000 years old after all, placing it precisely in the period of Christ’s crucifixion.

[Kolokotronis]

"The fact is that the canon was more or less fixed long before the council of Nicea." Yeah, I know, it was our bishops who did it, remember? In any event, I was talking about a council which occured 400 years later and composed of the successors of the men who determined the canon of the NT. Sorry, you don't believe in the Apostolic Succession, do you? "Furthermore, the task of the council was not to imprimatur the New Testament, but to distinguish it from forgeries--a purely forensic task."

Where in heaven's name did you get this from?

"The implication that the Church therefore supercedes scripture is absurd, although perfectly orthodox Catholic teaching."

Um, I'm not Roman, I'm Orthodox. One of those people Luther's boys tried to hook up with until the Patriarch of Constantinople told them to go peddle their wares elsewhere.

"Meanwhile, no decision of any pope or council is of any interest to me, least of all the decision to condemn sola scriptura as a heresy."

Well, given what most protestants apparently believe, I should hope not, lest you be accused of being hypocrits. But the next time you say that you believe in a Triune God, or say the Creed, look up who defined those dogmas. Here's hint, it wasn't Pope Luther, though he is the source of sola scriptura, isn't he?

[Kolokotronis]

"The problem was that the Church punished with death anyone who translated scripture into the common tongue, and at various points also punished with death any laymen who owned a copy of scripture in any tongue."

Not in the East, my Protestant friend. Scripture was readily available and widely read, even by the common people.

[aruanan]

What a beautiful image but the eyes look so sad.

The artist was heavily motivated.

[k2blader]

Isaiah 53

¹ Who has believed our message

    and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

    ² He grew up before him like a tender shoot,

    and like a root out of dry ground.

    He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,

    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

    ³ He was despised and rejected by men,

    a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.

    Like one from whom men hide their faces

    he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

[Kolokotronis]

NYer pointed out that icons were used to teach people who couldn't read about the Faith. That certainly was true. I've actually seen it done with little children. But the real purpose of icons, at least in the Orthodox East, is to provide a "window" of sorts into heaven and to graphically demonstrate the Truths of scripture. Icons are not realistic paintings, but, as you have probably observed, highly stylized which is to demonstrate the holy nature of those persons or events depicted and how the mundane is glorified and transformed by God. Orthodox Churches are filled with icons in conformity with Hebrews 12:1 where we are told that we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses.

To the Orthodox mind and spirit, time in a human sense is quite meaningless. Consequently, we feel a real kinship with the saints depicted on icons and a close familiarity with events shown on them. These saints are our friends and role models and these events are very much the events of our Faith lives, just like our friends and events "in the world". It may sound simplistic, but I have often heard people talk about icons like pictures of friends and family that one might take out and talk to or even kiss.

I will tell you, I can't imagine not living without my icons, at home, in the office, at church, even in my wallet. Its the way we are, my friend.

[Swordmaker]

Shroud of Turin PING... seems it might be a recycle of a previous thread...

If you want on or off the Shroud of Turin Ping list, Freepmail me.

Swordmaker

[Swordmaker]

most unlikely that He would allow a graven image on HIMSELF to be left behind when He is so opposed to it.

It doesn't seem to be graven... nor does it seem to be made by human means... what if GOD made it?

[Swordmaker]

his is what some forensic anthropologists say he may of looked like.

This has been roundly criticized as not being even good science. The authors of this article and the generators of the picture made some false assumptions based on nothing. One of those is that Jews of the era were short. The only known survey of the sizes of Jewish people involved examination of a large number of skeletons from a 1st Century Jerusalem Jewish cemetary. It was discovered the average height of males was 5'8.25 inches tall... the average height of modern American men is 5'8.75", only 1/2 inch taller. In fact the Roman Centurian who commanded the cohort that executed Jesus were most likely shorter than the populace of Judea.

[Swordmaker]

John 19:40 "Then they took the body of Jesus, and WOUND it in the linen clothes...".

Your problem lies in the English translation and it is not a problem in the original Greek.

John 20:7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but WRAPPED together in a place by itself.

Again, the word WRAPPED is an English translation of a Greek word that is better translated as "wound about" or "wound around" which descibes the binding that was traditionally used to tie under the chin and over the top of the head to keep the mouth closed in death.

Your contention is not supported by the cultural and archeaological record. There were binding cloths used... one around the head, another to tie the wrists together, and perhaps one around the feet (although probably not needed).

[Cronos]

err... Christ's corpse WAS re-animated; and NOT after 2000 years but after 3 days.

[Swordmaker]

I knew a microscopist who was the very top of his field who was asked to examine it and he found without a doubt that it was a fake - they weren't blood stains, but an iron compound, I think. But he was more or less threatened if he ever published his result. That was about 30 yrs ago.

Walter C. McCrone DID publish but his work has failed the test of peer review. Not ONE other scientist other than those working for McCrone has every been able to duplicate his findings... in fact, many of his findings have been completely disproved by much more comprehensive tests done by people much more expert in their fields. NO ONE ELSE has found Iron Oxide on the Shroud in sufficient amounts to form an image. McCrone's claim that it was PAINTED using a dilute tempera solution is ludicrous considering what we now know of the image. McCrone even claimed to know the exact dilution of the paint... something that is totally unknowable merely from observing a dried result.

McCrone was not "threatened"... he was told that his papers had to undergo peer review, which he agreed to before being allowed access to the samples... he refused. The only place that McCrone's work was published was in The Microscopist, published and editied by Wanter C. McCrone.

[Cronos]

Well, the article is a typical media's exaggeration. All the scientists did was depict what a typical Judean would have looked like -- there may have been no one who looked like that, they just took the most common features. Similarly, imagine if in the future they try to portray what an average American in our time looked like -- it wouldnt' look like any of us I'd bet!

[Cronos]

Correctly put -- the key point is that those images are not to be worshipped, they are not God in any way.

[Cronos]

You know what? Those "theories" like "a Roman guard gave him a healing drug made out of some flower that allowed him to survive" sound more fanciful than the truth -- that He was raised from the dead!!

[Androcles]

I fdon't believe he was short. Or tall. Or middle height. I don't believe it matters and I've never seen a biblical reference where it indicated height.

I do believe that he radiated authority and wisdom, that he was a natural leader and teacher and someone who it was nearly automatic to defer to and respect.

None of that requires height. Aas you pointed out, with the blood of God flowingg in his veins he doesn't need the height advantafgghat the normal man might need. Do you really find it hard to believe that God could experience difficulty in making a midget a natural leader?

I don't believe size is relevant (Abnd for the record I'm not short myself). If you can find a more compelling Biblical comment re his height I'd be happy to re-examine it.

As to the topic of whether short people make tyrants rather than leaders, that deserves a whole page to itself. I would point out though that a: the average height has been growing steadily for centuries and many we don't think of as short would stand out for that reason today (Captain Cook, etc. Also, how many non-mythical leaders are famed for their height? c: At the times of Temuchin or Timurlane or Napoleon, etc how many world leaders were likely to have been taller? Or intrinsically better as leaders go?

[Cronos]

I can't believe it...He looks Jewish!

Of course, He WAS a Jew -- I remember this one anecdote I read somewhere:

"My aunt, ____ , a devout Jew was very sick once and had to be hospitalised -- the best one nearby was a Catholic hospital run by nuns. The nuns asked us if she would be offended by the large crucifix above her bed. When we asked aunty, she said 'Don't be silly. When I see that I think of the achievement by one of our boys!'. The nuns loved her after that!"

[lupie]

Obviously, you did not know Dr. Mcrone.

[Cronos]

Tronis is talking about the iconoclasm controversy that wracked the Eastern church from the 7th century. It is of course not in the Bible.