Posted on 02/02/2005 11:06:49 PM PST by DoughtyOne
There is a fine line that one should walk these days, when discussing the Presidency of George W. Bush. I say this because I firmly believe that the President is a good man. I believe that he is truly a Christian. Unlike a recent occupant of the White House, he does love and honor not only his wife, but his children, his parents, his extended family, his supporters and his God.
President Bush was handed a difficult task, in September of 2001. He has met that task head on, and in a number of ways, has provided an excellent response. His directives concerning Afghanistan and Iraq have been masterful. I am so glad that he had the foresight to appoint Donald Rumsfeld his Secretary of Defense, and Condoliza Rice his National Security Advisor. Both these individuals are sharp as tacks, and have obviously contributed towards the goals the President set for the nation, and seems to be achieving. Threading a fine line between being too receptive to those who wanted him to hold off some military moves, and taking a harder line suggested by the other end of the spectrum, President Bush seems well on his way to liberating for generations to come, the inhabitants of two nations in the middle-east.
There have been times when I wondered if the President were doing the right thing at certain points. This last Sunday, I along with others were pleasantly surprised at how well things have come together. The Iraqi people went to the polls in great numbers. Even those who had wished the President well in his efforts in Iraq, were relieved that the elections were so successful, I among them.
When it comes to the war in Iraq, when it comes to standing up against the leaders of Europe, when it comes to defining the path that we will take to repair Social Security, the President has my full support. I am very glad to have someone in the White House who advances policies on these issues, the way he does. His talk on these and a number of other issues is like sweet music to my ears. How sad I am that I must now talk about the fingernails on the chalkboard issue of our time, illegal immigration.
The President for all his power, for all his positives and all his good intentions, is still a man. He is a man that has many fine qualities. He is also a man that can and sometimes does make a mistake. I consider his desires to change certain aspects of our immigration policies, to be a colossal misjudgment. Unlike Iraq where I felt very uneasy, but avoided for the most part challenging the President's actions early on at Fallujah, and a few other places, I can see no room for compromise concerning the ongoing invasion of the United States.
This evening the President once again addressed the issue of immigration. Once again the meaning was crystal clear to those of us who disagree with him on that subject. Before I continue I want to be clear about something. I address this issue, because this is the issue where I find fault with the President. I don't do this because I am happy to have one issue to disagree with him on. I am very unhappy that I have to address this issue. I shouldn't have to at all, but this issue is important enough that I am going to address it continuously until the issue is resolved, the policies I cannot endorse are changed to protect this nation. That should be our overriding concern here. It is mine.
Here is what President Bush said this evening. This is the way I see the issues he raised.
America's immigration system is also outdated - unsuited to the needs of our economy and to the values of our country.
There are three issues in this charged sentence. I do believe that there are areas for improvement regarding the guidelines and procedures that govern Visas and short term visitors to the United States. I have no problem with the President trying to get a handle on who is entering our nation, how long they stay and whether they actually go home or not. This is not just an issue with Mexico. It's an issue that confronts us across the board with all who enter this nation. In this, I can support the President. I believe he is wise to address this component of the immigration issue.
Where the President and I part ways, is when he implies that our economy can't meet it's needs without poor, uneducated, unable to be financialy responsible for themselves, men and women from foreign countries. If the President were addressing the problems of the world's poor, I might be more inclined to listen to his proposals, but he isn't. This isn't about the world's poor. It's about one nation's poor. Yes, illegal immigration has an multi-national component to it, but it is primarily one nation that is flooding ours with it's citizens. I can't help but address this fact. It's true and so this one nation is addressed more than any other, for it's sordid practices.
When it comes to the issue of values, it is clear the United States is second to none when it comes to philanthropy. Our citizens give medical, educational, housing and other forms of help to the citizens of Mexico in Mexico. Physicians, nurses, teachers, aid workers, volunteers have been conducting mission work in Mexico for as long as I can remember. This represents our values. We are a good-hearted people who wish the best for the Mexican people. We gain no pleasure from seeing their national leaders abuse them, and I am firmly convinced this is the true condition of Mexico.
Values are not one-dimensional, and they don't exist in a vacuum. Extending a helping hand to millions of new Mexican poor each year is an admirable goal. The question is, how do you achieve that? Do you allow them to pour across your frontier in an endless stream that creates instant slums where ever they go? Do you allow them to swamp your communities, health care and education resources? Do you allow them to soak up tens of billions of dollars of funding that citizens have every right to expect to be spent on their local community and state needs? The answers to these question are a resounding no.
If I want to help someone out, I dig in my pocket and donate the appropriate amount based on what I can afford, what the actual need is. If you were to do that with my money it wouldn't be right. When the government does it, it's not right either. In fact, it would show a complete avoidance of reasoned values to do such a thing. Please don't talk to me about this nations values, while suggesting that I and hundreds of millions of other U.S. Citizens will have to hand over our hospitals, schools, infrastructure, and even a portion of our futures, so this can be facilitated.
We should not be content with laws that punish hardworking people who want only to provide for their families, and deny businesses willing workers, and invite chaos at our border.
These sentences are some of the most charged sentences I've ever seen. At once they are complex, a misdirecting slight of hand, and dishonest.
Mr. President, your fellow citizens are hard working people who are trying to provide for their families. What about folks like us? Why do you seek to punish us so that others can get services for free that we cannot? Why should non-citizens get free health care while we have to pay through the ying-yang to get it? Does it really seem like good values to you, to allow businesses to pay sub-scale so that illegals can work, when I and my fellow citizens have to pay so much for their health care, education, and other assorted freebies? Why should we subsidize these businesses this way? Does it seem like a good idea to flood this nation with people who have only a 4th to 8th grade education? How will they put a roof over their head on minimum wage? Who will feed clothe and house them? Who will pay for the deliveries of their children? What community can thrive with tens of thousands of these poor people in their midst? We are talking about instant slums across this nation. Some localities will be besieged in greater numbers than others. Where is your compassion for them?
Mr. President, there is only one group causing chaos at our border. It is the illegal alien who has shown themselves unwilling to respect the laws of our nation. When you frame the debate the way you have, you simply side with them. And I might add, you side with them against us. Why? What did we do to deserve this?
It is time for an immigration policy that permits temporary guest workers to fill jobs Americans will not take, that rejects amnesty, that tells us who is entering and leaving our country, and that closes the border to drug dealers and terrorists.
Mr. President, I'll make a deal with you. If you respect me, I'll respect you. Please do not insult my intelligence by claiming these will be guest workers. At this very minute, you are loathe to send anyone back to their nation of origin. How can you expect me to believe that in six years, you'll be sending anyone back to the nation of their origin then? You know as well as I do that these guest workers will bring families that we, not they, will pay for. They will develop homes here. They will invest years of their lives here. Who are you trying to kid? You're not going to send even one of these people home. Instead you will be asking to up the quota.
Here's another question for you Mr. President. Is it fair to the other citizens of the world to have millions of Mexican citizens enter our nation through expanded immigration quotas, while they have to go through all the same procedures they always have? Would it be a good idea to open up our guest worker program to all the world's poor? Should we allow millions from every poor nation around the world, to enter our nation each year? If not, then how do we justify it for one nation?
Here's a problem you haven't seemed to consider. If we allow two million worker permits per year, do you think that will end illegal immigration? It won't. Those who can't get in under any quota you set, will continue to come over the border as they always have. You'll immediately have a worker entry program, the continued illegal immigration on top of that, and the folks who were here when it all started. We're looking at thirty million people within five years. We have ten to fifteen now. We'll let another million or two in each year legally. We'll still have illegal immigration. And while all this goes on, we'll still have hospitals and schools inundated at a rate double what it has been.
Where is the solution in this Mr. President? What will it resolve? We'll have infrastructure crumbling faster than before, health care and education already on the ropes, placed on life support.
Illegal immigration will still see millions of undocumenteds coming across. Gang and terrorist group members among them.
You see Mr. President, you would have to close the borders to illegal immigrants for this plan to work. Unfortunately, you have refused to do that. In light of that your plan will never work. This nation will just be torn apart one neighborhood at a time at an even faster rate than it has been, until someone finally turns out the lights.
I sure wish I didn't have to address this issue. This plan doesn't make sense on any level. With that last comment, I'll just concede that folks in Washington won't be able to resist it. What a sad day for America it will be, when this plan hits the ground running.
Nice points.
I don't know where you got that. The arguments behind them were how much it cost to support a family. (not necessarily have two cars, a TV, air conditioner, computer, private schools, vacations, their own house,..) But regardless, any adult who can't keep a job paying more than $6.50 must be doing an entry level job? A person shouldn't expect to work as a grocery store checher for his entire life and be able to afford to buy a mansion in a gated community and drive Corvettes.
"If we want more workers, then we can come up with policies that encourages our own citizens to have more children. "
How does that help you? Same number of school children, same number of laborers "driving down wages", going to hospitals... The only difference I can see is that one baby may be named John and the other Juan.
" it's okay if we mastermind slums in vast regions of our nation"
That's a California problem because of your high real estate costs. Other states subsidize clean modest housing and enforce sanitation laws and criminal laws. Don't blame Bush for California's mismanagement.
"You can't advocate two million poor come here from every nation. That would bring about 300 million per year here."
Under a guest worker plan American employers bring in only the number that they need.
By the way. Since state and local law enforcement agencies can enforce immigration laws, and the CBP will train them for free, why do you ONLY blame President Bush for your problems? Why don't you blame your local mayor for not busting employers of illegals?
People who want to blame Bush for all of their local problems instead of the local politicians who could solve them, are just looking for reasons to blame Bush.
When Bush was done with his hyperbole on immigration, I cringed and cried out LIAR right in front of my kids. Liar and hypocrite.
Great post. Now bring on the BOT incoming.
bttt
VERY eloquent...bravo!
Bayourod, your posts are some of the few I see on the forum, that go from one falsehood or flawed premise to another to another.
That first paragraph was so powerful, I'll just refrain from responding. It would be pointless. It didn't even make sense.
Your question about more children is likewise another waste of time. If you don't know the difference, then you're not qualified to participate in this discussion.
Then you're off to California and saying that it's isn't Bush's fault. Boy if that isn't your mantra. It isn't Bush's fault, and by God it sure as hell isn't tens of millions of illegal allien's fault either. Whose fault is it? Well it must be California's. California now sets national guidelines on immigration, healthcare mandates, education guidelines, and oh yess, that $3 billion dollar gene research program caused it all. LOL.
Let me see, you think ten thousand illegals making minimum wage would be an economic boon for any neighborhood. Okay, we've got that on the record. Only California's high realestate makes it impossible for illegals to house, feed, clothe, provide medical care and educate their children. Hmmm, shere genious.
"Other states subsidize..." Need I respond to this mindset.
Well because the United States Constitution says the President 'SHALL' protect the states from invasion. That's the main reason why I say that you don't respect the U.S. Constitution and the laws of our nation.
Oh now I get it. You think all local politicians are president. Oh okay. Thanks.
I'm not sure it's a good idea to show the kids our displeasure at this. Just make sure that they understand the concepts of God granted rights, the reasons for limited governance, and self-reliance. Teach them that, respect for religion, and the golden rule and they'll grow up to believe what you do no matter what.
Texas. Manufacturing sector, health care sector, education, law enforcement and oil patch. The children of immigrants are being educated as fast as we can to go into these professions.
"The flood of illegals has created a downward pressure upon wages in America. "
Which wages? Gardeners? Roofers? Car Washers? Immigrants coming here for minimum wage jobs don't drive down wages of anyone except people in those same minimum wage jobs, not doctors and lawyers.
"Illegal immigration is a cancer."
Meaningless bumper sticker slogan. They come because there is a demand for their labor and they provide essential services. Productive employees are a nation's greatest asset, not a cancer. That's unthinking babble.
"It undermines sovereignty of the nation. It undermines all efforts to secure ourselves from terrorists."
No it doesn't. That Buchanan/Tancredo fundraising nonsense. We've always had a large immigration population and our sovereignty hasn't been threatened by immigrants. Tsake a quick trip to your local veteran's cemetary and look at the names on the headstones and tell them they threatened our sovereignty. Next your going to say it causes global warming or some such nonsense.
"George Bush firmly believes poor people have a right to break the law to seek a better life. This is the rationale of a thief. "
Where have you been the last four years. Bush has proposed a guest worker program that would eliminate illegal labors. He has also increased border security. President Bush is not a thief.
" Bush's rationale, ... they want is a better life and we, the American people, OWE IT TO THEM. "
No, the rationale is that we need them and they need us. It's mutuality. Same theory as the drug trade, but different because these are good intentioned people engaged in beneficial activity.
President Bush is addressing the immigration situation in the most responsible way, just as he has all other issues.
The only opponents the Repubs have are the Dems and they are silent on this issue, or in the very least, agree with it...
A pretty good game Washington is playing...
If it's so obvious, apparent and simple why don't you just verbalize for everyone what the difference is between baby John and baby Juan?
Illegal immigrants make more than minimum wage because they perform more valuable jobs than taking orders at McDonalds. Laborers start at about $10 an hour here.
And yes, ten thousand employees making minimum wage mean several thousand managers, foremen, accountants, secretaries, salesmen and other support personnel are making far more than minimum wages, and the companies are paying taxes. Then you have the multiplier effect which means grocery stores, gas stations, Kmarts, dry cleaners, plumbers, doctors, car dealers, schools...
10,000 employees would support a town of probably 20,000.
What type occupation do you have that doesn't benefit from economic activity? And why do you want the rest of us to suffer from closing businesses?
Could be that John is the only American in the bunch...Nice try...When nothing else works, try a little racism...
Texas is 40% Hispanic and was just rated the best state for businesses to open or relocate to, in part because of our labor force.
You said it...We all know that...Business loves that cheap labor...But you don't seem to notice that the illegals down in Texas seriously undercut the earning ability of 'legal' citizens of Mexican descent...And flooding the U.S. with all of Mexico's poor will furthur drive wages down...
But I have to wonder, why is it that people like you encourage the population of Mexico to come to the U.S. to take our jobs when you could be doing something IN MEXICO to create work for your citizens...Why not make Mexico a desirable place to live and work???
If you understood it you might.
Slums can be handled locally. The city condemns a slum neighborhood, buys the land, bulldozes it down and then sells it to developers who agree to build low cost housing in exchange for tax abatements, low interest bond financing etc... Then the city uses their bond rating to help lower income people buy the homes. The city has replaced a slum with a new subdivision at very little cost to the taxpayers. Everybody wins, especially the city by increasing its tax base.
But if the citizens of California aren't aware that their local governments can do things to clean up slums that's their loss.
Do you really believe that Hispanics are criminals?
I've owned a number of businesses and employed hundreds of people from janitors to lawyers. I don't know of any employer who won't tell you that the most valuable asset a company can have is a good employee.
Often one company will buy another company for no other reason than to get its employees. Being from California you should be aware of this since it was rampant in silicone valley in the 90s.
What are you talking about? The only worker permits I know of are for medical school graduates and models.
I really wish that you would quit throwing around the "racist" tag on these immigration threads. If you have a good argument, you can make it without accusing people of being racists just because they want our immigration laws enforced, our borders secured, or because they are opposed to a guest worker program.
If you don't make any racist comments no one will think that you are one of the racist.
It is true that there is a fine line between supporting our President in this crucial time (a president who we all love and respect so much) and having the courage to stand up to him when he is obviously imperiling the nation with such an open border policy.
I am trying to understand the President’s reasoning. Is he possibly thinking that there is no way to stop them from coming so best to have them beholden to Republicans so when they become the majority of voters in several states (and they will eventually), then they will keep the Republican party in power?
I have read (even on this board) the sentiments that “what would be so wrong with the USA eventual becoming dominantly Hispanic, perhaps that is our destiny.” I guess the question then becomes whether we want to continue to celebrate the 4th of July or would we be content to celebrate Cinco de Maya, because from what I am seeing, most Hispanics are not very interested in assimilating into an “American” culture and language, but intend on retaining their own.
I guess I have to question a bit of your reasoning on the subject of Mexican immigrants building slums across the nation. That would be a temporary condition...... just like it was when the Scots/Irish immigrants came. First generation there were slums, future generations got an education and worked their way out. So perhaps Bush is reasoning, they will come... so let them work legally so they can rise above the slums one day. But then the same ole question arises...... are we ready to see America become predominantly Hispanic? Perhaps Bush has accepted the inevitable. Perhaps he sees a future when there is little distinction between borders of any country?
I’ll probably get flamed for saying this but my thoughts are that George W Bush sees what his father called “A New World Order”... when his father said in 1991,
“Now, we can see a new world coming into view. A world in which there is the very real prospect of a new world order. In the words of Winston Churchill, a "world order" in which "the principles of justice and fair play ... protect the weak against the strong ..." A world where the United Nations, freed from cold war stalemate, is poised to fulfill the historic vision of its founders.”“ To me this is a scary thought!
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