Posted on 01/18/2005 5:57:53 PM PST by wagglebee
All the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our Forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth.
--Robert E. Lee
Why do Americans continue to remember their past?
Perhaps it is because it was a time when truth was spoken. Men and women took their stand to give us the freedoms we now enjoy. God bless those in military service, who do their duty around the world for freedom.
The Hall of Fame for great Americans opened in 1900 in New York City. One thousand names were submitted, but only 29 received a majority vote from the electors. General Robert E. Lee, 30 years after his death, was among those honored. A bust of Lee was given to New York University by the United Daughters of the Confederacy.
Let America not forget January 19, 2005, the 198th birthday of General Robert E. Lee.
Robert E. Lee was born at Stratford House, Westmoreland County, Virginia, on January 19, 1807. The winter was cold and fireplaces were little help. Robert's mother, Ann Hill (Carter) Lee, was suffering from a severe cold.
Ann Lee named her son Robert Edward after her two brothers.
Robert E. Lee undoubtedly acquired his love of country from those who had lived during the American Revolution. His father, "Light Horse" Harry, was a hero of the revolution and served as governor of Virginia and as a member of the U.S. House of Representatives. Members of his family also signed the Declaration of Independence.
Lee was educated in the schools of Alexandria, Virginia. In 1825, he received an appointment to West Point Military Academy. He graduated in 1829, second in his class and without a single demerit.
Robert E. Lee wed Mary Anna Randolph Custis in June 1831, two years after his graduation from West Point. Robert and Mary had grown up together. Mary was the daughter of George Washington Parke Custis, the grandson of Martha Washington and the adopted son of George Washington.
Mary was an only child; therefore, she inherited Arlington House, across the Potomac from Washington, where she and Robert raised seven children.
Army promotions were slow. In 1836, Lee was appointed to first lieutenant. In 1838, with the rank of captain, Lee fought valiantly in the War with Mexico and was wounded at the Battle of Chapultepec.
He was appointed superintendent of West Point in 1852 and is considered one of the best superintendents in that institution's history.
President-to-be Abraham Lincoln offered command of the Union Army to Lee in 1861, but Lee refused. He would not raise arms against his native state.
War was in the air. The country was in turmoil of separation. Lee wrestled with his soul. He had served in the United States Army for over 30 years.
After an all-night battle, much of that time on his knees in prayer, Robert Edward Lee reached his decision. He reluctantly resigned his commission and headed home to Virginia.
Arlington House would be occupied by the Federals, who would turn the estate into a war cemetery. Today it is one of our country's most cherished memorials, Arlington National Cemetery.
President John F. Kennedy visited Arlington shortly before he was assassinated in 1963 and said he wanted to be buried there. And he is, in front of Robert E. Lee's home.
Lee served as adviser to Confederate President Jefferson Davis and then commanded the legendary Army of Northern Virginia. The exploits of Lee's army fill thousands of books today.
After four terrible years of death and destruction, General Robert E. Lee met General Ulysses S. Grant at Appomattox, Virginia, and ended their battles. He told his disheartened comrades, "Go home and be good Americans."
Lee was called Marse Robert, Uncle Robert and Marble Man. He was loved by the people of the South and adopted by the folks from the North.
Robert E. Lee was a man of honor, proud of his name and heritage. After the War Between the States, he was offered $50,000 for the use of his name. His reply was "Sirs, my name is the heritage of my parents. It is all I have and it is not for sale."
In the fall of 1865, Lee was offered and accepted the presidency of troubled Washington College in Lexington, Virginia. The school was renamed Washington and Lee in his honor.
Robert E. Lee died of a heart attack at 9:30 on the morning of October 12, 1870, at Washington-Lee College. His last words were "Strike the tent." He was 63 years of age.
He is buried in a chapel on the school grounds with his family and near his favorite horse, Traveller.
A prolific letter writer, Lee wrote his most famous quote to son Custis in 1852: "Duty is the sublimest word in our language."
On this 198th anniversary let us ponder the words he wrote to Annette Carter in 1868: "I grieve for posterity, for American principles and American liberty."
Winston Churchill called Lee "one of the noblest Americans who ever lived." Lee's life was one of service and self-sacrifice. His motto was "Duty, Honor, Country."
God Bless America!
Good evening sir, I salute you and yours.
George Washington was President of the United States "back when." Does that imply he was always the president of the United States? Try again.
[NJ Neocon #549] He was the provisional president, he quite just like the whining Confederate leaders,
"Eamon De Valera (1882-1975), Irish republican leader, was Ireland's first prime minister (1937-48; also in 1951-54 and 1957-59) and its president (1959-73). He was born on October 14, 1882, in New York City, and educated at Royal University, Dublin. During his early life he was a student and teacher of mathematics in Ireland. He soon became well known as an activist for Irish independence. He led a group of Sinn Féin rebels during the uprising of Easter Week, 1916, and was sentenced to life imprisonment when the British quelled the revolt. He was released in the general amnesty of 1917. Later that year, when the Irish republican members of the British Parliament resigned to form their own government, he was elected president of the Sinn Féin party."
With the exceptions of 1949-50 and 1955-56, Eamonn de Valera was either Prime Minister or President of Ireland from 1937 to 1973.
[NJ Neocon #549] and his leaving and his facton's opposition caused the Irish Civil War (with the Brits backing NOT de Valera, but the Free State).
Why would Irish seeking independence from Britain care -what- the Brits backed? Adjust your King Billy pin.
The significant factor was not the backing of the partitioning by the Brits, but by the Protestant Unionists in Northern Ireland.
"The people of Northern Ireland, as the six counties in Ulster Province were known, ratified the legislation in May 1921 and elected a parliament. Although the rest of Ireland also elected a parliament in May, the Sinn Feiners, constituting an overwhelming majority outside of Ulster, refused to recognise the other provisions of the Home Rule Bill. The warfare against the British continued until July 10, 1921, when a truce was arranged."
Why didn't you check your timeline? The proposed 13th Amendment passed out of the House in February 28 and the Senate on March 2nd, both before Lincoln was inaugurated. If by 'confederation' you mean the confederacy, Davis had been inaugurated February 18 and the confederacy was operating under a provisional constitution which protected slavery and slave imports so the Amendment was passed AFTER the confederacy was established. So having protected slavery on their own why would the southern states suddenly call off their secession?
So it was about slavery after all, at least from the southern perspective?
So the question becomes, what would motivate the yakees to wage war on the seceded states? Certainly not slavery and/or blacks, so that leaves another reason.
Sure. Bombarding Sumter into surrender and initiating a war. How about that?
They couldn't stand the thought of a southern confederacy buying goods from Europe at lower prices without the protectionist tariffs, nor could they stand to PAY tariffs on what they would now import from the South, nor could they afford to lose the millions in revenue from duties paid by Southern customers.
That is so ridiculous if you bothered to think about it. They would only PAY tariffs if the Congress decided to impose them. And as for the confederacy buying goods from Europe at lower rates, just what was it that the confederacy was supposed to be importing in such massive amounts? And since the southern imports were disproportionately small to begin with, losing that revenue might sting but not enough to go to war over. Otherwise it would have happened before Sumter.
If slavery had NEVER existed - North or South - would the secession have been legal? In your opinion of course? You already know my position.
Sure. Bombarding Sumter into surrender and initiating a war. How about that?
But WHY? You're going to tell me that financially Sumter had little value, and we already know that the yankees didn't wants blacks in the union, so why fight a war to keep the South in the union?
That is so ridiculous if you bothered to think about it.
Not hardly. I have a minor in Economics, and it makes perfect sense.
Yes. But never unilaterally as the southern states tried.
But WHY? You're going to tell me that financially Sumter had little value, and we already know that the yankees didn't wants blacks in the union, so why fight a war to keep the South in the union?
Because the southern unilateral acts of secession were illegal.
Not hardly. I have a minor in Economics, and it makes perfect sense.
Big deal, I have an MBA from Northwestern and all the economic theory from the classes I took there doesn't explain the rebellion and the gaps in the arguement of those who claim that it was all about tariffs. And I also feel that I have read up on the Civil War more than the average person, including the causes of the rebellion, and I cannot understand just what it was that you believe the south imported in such massive amounts as to have generated the majority of tariff revenue? Nor have I found what it was that the south was supposed to have gotten cheaper from Europe. Perhaps you can help out here?
Nice.
That was not the point of the question but can you offer any proof for that claim (since you brought it up)?
The point was why do you fly the American flag? Why do you care so much about a nation that you believe;
a)Should have been destroyed - you would, no doubt, prefer to see an alive CSA with the Stars and Bars over Richmond rather than the Stars & Stripes
b) That half of this same nation can take a flying leap for all you care - including conservative brethern who don't live in dixie
You hate America. Tell me you are happy that the Confederacy lost.
Absolutley.
No such amendment would have passed and you know it. There is no way 2/3 or 3/4th of the congress and states would have supported that. Slavery was doomed in the U.S. The south knew it. They proclaimed it. Their very words prove that it was the reason for secession.
"That was not the point of the question but can you offer any proof for that claim (since you brought it up)?"
Since you can't measure patriotism per se, I worded it that way.....that is, not to say southerners are more patriotic than anyone else, but that their patriotism will not be exceeded anywhere else - they are AS patriotic as any other area.
"The point was why do you fly the American flag? Why do you care so much about a nation that you believe;"
I got your point, but I also got the context in which you provided it. You think what is sometimes termed "southern pride" takes away from being an American. That is wrong.
"Should have been destroyed - you would, no doubt, prefer to see an alive CSA with the Stars and Bars over Richmond rather than the Stars & Stripes"
Proof of my previous assertion. I seek not a return of the confederacy, rather I firmly believe that this nation is what it is today because of the Civil War. It's really not that complicated a concept, but apparently you don't understand.
"That half of this same nation can take a flying leap for all you care - including conservative brethern who don't live in dixie"
I rather take it the other way around, friend. You seem to think that dixie, for the crime of admiring a notably decent and good man like General Lee, somehow is less American than you and your turnpike-dwelling brethren, conservative or not.
"You hate America. Tell me you are happy that the Confederacy lost."
Nonesense. You hate General Lee and anyone who admires him. I believe that America would be a better place if Federalism were restrained, and the 10th Amendment were not overturned by force. That not being the case, I firmly believe that eventually, Americans, even some of those from Jersey, will help restore the Federal system to a place more fitting to it's constitutional intent. It won't be pretty, but if it doesn't happen, then we Americans will be little more than across-the-pond Europeans in short order.
Shame on you Jersey. One man's (or states) patriotism takes nothing from another mans. I don't need to list my patriotic resume to prove I'm an American, nor do I care to see yours.
Shame on you. You questioned the patriotism of an entire State.
And for the record, my being from NJ has nothing to do with anything. I only added "NJ" to my name because "Neocon" was taken. I live in NJ which is a state of many wonderful attributes, but many not-so-wonderful ones as well (just like everywhere else). I do not identify with NJ first. I am an American first. I lived in Dixie for 8 years. Stop obsessing about where I live. It is irrelevant.
Moving on, are you saying then that you see the preservation of the Union as a good thing? That you are glad the Confederacy was defeated?
Confederates are traitors. Are you threatening violence against the United States of America ?
Consider education as the building on a solid foundation (morality).
Are you also going to take up arms against the United States of America like that traitor ?
Having lived in NJ myself, I'm curious what these wonderful attributes are.
It's not North Dakota?
LOL. You get to work in NYC.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.
Lee's "sincere hope that my poor services may never be needed" and that "I may never be called upon to draw my sword" has a hollow sound when one reflects that what he offered Virginia and the Confederacy was precisely a drawn sword. The real irony, though, is that he wrote this to his Unionist sister Anne Marshall in Baltimore to explain why he was preparing to take up arms in a rebellion against their common country. And indeed, he did wage war against her son who became a Union officer.
Lee clearly did have a difficult decision to make. It's not a decision any of us could have easily made. All the options were bad. Fighting for the Union or staying out would have been very difficult for him. But taking up the Confederate cause wasn't any better a choice. Looking back, we can see how his choice prolonged the war and made it more costly than it otherwise could have been. And there are real moral questions behind someone who did not believe in secession and who had sworn allegiance to the US and it's Constitution to take up arms against it.
Soldiers are generally easier on those they fought against than civilians are. They have respect for those who fought bravely and hard in an opposing -- even a very unrighteous -- cause. What's objectionable is the idea that one could serve thirty years in the US army, pledge allegiance, lead men into battle, and head our military academy without coming to feel close ties to those from other states.
The argument may be made that Virginia was "real" and the Union an abstraction, but it looks as though for someone like Lee or Scott the reverse could be much truer. They'd spent their lives in service to the country, their fellow officers, and their countrymen and countrywomen. Scott remained true to the the loyalties he'd developed over his lifetime, while Lee turned away from them.
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