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Same-Sex Marriage - A Threat To Whom?
12-23-04 | Ernie1241

Posted on 12/23/2004 7:40:45 AM PST by Ernie.cal

I have read many messages which object to same-sex marriage but I am still waiting to learn what specific adverse consequences opponents of gay marriage anticipate to result from its legalization.

In other words, suppose same-sex marriage becomes law during 2005. By 2010 or 2015 what specific indisputable adverse consequences to society do opponents predict to occur?

With respect to those critics of same-sex marriage who refer to "God's law" and "procreation" --- do they believe that heterosexual couples who cannot have children, or who do not wish to have children, should also NOT be allowed to marry?

The essence of a free society is choice---including the option of choosing private behavior that does not cause harm to another person. The alternative is coercion, i.e. using the coercive (and punitive) power of government through laws, bureaucrats, and police to dictate what choices are permissible.

Do opponents of same-sex marriage propose that our society should begin identifying areas where choices involving human intimacy should be regulated by government entities and thus dilute our commitment to the values inherent in a free society?


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
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To: Killing Time

I am pretty sure that prior to these times it was natural for a man to take 1 wife and cling to her, support her and protect and care for their offspring together, it's just that in the Bible God blessed this practice and made it a covenant just like the covenant between God and Abraham.


101 posted on 12/23/2004 8:27:50 AM PST by westmichman (Pray for global warming. (Thank GOD for the red states))
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To: AppyPappy

I'm positive we have been trolled. ;-D


102 posted on 12/23/2004 8:28:16 AM PST by Judith Anne (Thank you St. Jude for favors granted.)
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To: Ernie.cal
GAY BROTHERS: How many gay brothers do you suppose there are in our country? If they ALL decided to marry, what adverse consequence do you anticipate occurring?

So, you would permit gay brothers or sisters to marry. Thank you for being clear. Now, how about a father and son? Father and 18 year old daughter? Please state your reasons why or why not in each case.

103 posted on 12/23/2004 8:28:28 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
I wouldn't forbid it. People can do whatever they want, as long as it does not affect me.

Also, I really don't think that there is going to be a huge push for father-daughter or brother-brother marriages. But if there are, then good luck to them.

104 posted on 12/23/2004 8:28:53 AM PST by conserv13
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To: Yonkers Finest
Do you believe that homosexuality is a choice?? If young children are exposed to gay lifestyles they will be more prone to becoming gay themselves??

I believe that homosexuality is a mental defect for some (they're "born" that way), a choice for others, and the rest caused by influences in their childhood.

If teens are exposed to gay influences while developing their sexual identity, I believe it may tilt them one way rather than the other.

Years ago, it was a stigma to be considered gay. Now that stigma is almost entirely gone, and in some circles, almost "celebrated". I believe that this whole new generation of youth being exposed to gay "tolerance" is having the desired effect, which is larger percentages of kids being homo- and bi-sexual. Both lifestyles are detrimental to their personal lifestyle, not to mention society.

105 posted on 12/23/2004 8:29:19 AM PST by crv16
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To: Ernie.cal

It is up to you to prove your case to the majority, not the other way around. So far you haven't done that.


106 posted on 12/23/2004 8:29:24 AM PST by unbalanced but fair
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To: Ernie.cal

It's not up to us to PROVE the case against this radical change. It's up to THEM to convince us we're better off in they're radical new world. I'm still waiting to be convinced.


107 posted on 12/23/2004 8:30:10 AM PST by DManA
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To: Judith Anne
"Troll."

Heeeere, kitty, kitty, kitty!!!!

Breakfast time!!!

108 posted on 12/23/2004 8:30:17 AM PST by TexasCowboy (Texan by birth, citizen of Jesusland by the Grace of God)
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To: AppyPappy

I don't think he is a troll he has been on FR for awhile. Though, as far as I recall, all his posts are about the john birch society. So he probably isn't a troll he is just a bit "off".


109 posted on 12/23/2004 8:30:40 AM PST by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: Ernie.cal
The essence of a free society is choice---including the option of choosing private behavior that does not cause harm to another person. The alternative is coercion, i.e. using the coercive (and punitive) power of government through laws, bureaucrats, and police to dictate what choices are permissible.

Wrong. The alternative to choice is NOT coercion. The alternative here is the law to FORBID. That is not coercion to DO something, that is legislation by the people to DENY one of a particular set of choices.

110 posted on 12/23/2004 8:31:13 AM PST by Judith Anne (Thank you St. Jude for favors granted.)
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To: conserv13

What happens when it does affect you? Suppose you have a daughter who gets involved in a male dominated polygamy group?


111 posted on 12/23/2004 8:32:07 AM PST by unbalanced but fair
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To: Ernie.cal

Why just couples? Would you be willing to support polygamy being legal?

Or would you simply support the end of government interference into relationships altogether?

The divorce rate may a result of divorce being too easy to obtain. You can't blame the institution for the recent rise in divorces when they became easier to get. The institution has been around longer than easy divorces.


112 posted on 12/23/2004 8:32:15 AM PST by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: Ernie.cal
So, in your judgment, divorce should also not be permitted because it causes harm to children?

************

Except in cases of documented physical abuse, yes.

113 posted on 12/23/2004 8:32:44 AM PST by trisham
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To: Judith Anne

Your questions are posed in a hostile "when did you stop beating your wife?" fashion.

If you personally perceive no benefit to yourself does that mean you are prepared to deny human rights to another person? For example, slave owners perceived no benefit to ending slavery. Therefore, should our country have outlawed "the aggressive abolitionist agenda to proceed"? Perhaps imprison abolitionists, legally forbid them to marry or own property or publish newspapers?

Your message seems to indicate that YOU are the ultimate model for all good and decent persons, i.e. we must all behave and think like you do. "What, if anything, is GOOD about YOUR agenda" for American society?


114 posted on 12/23/2004 8:33:34 AM PST by Ernie.cal
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To: Ernie.cal
The quest to normalize that which you wish to be normalized is something homosexual activists will continue with even though it is clear that the majority of straight people do not want it normalized. The clever question of who it hurts is an appeal to feelings more than thought.

The essence of a free society is choice---including the option of choosing private behavior that does not cause harm to another person. The alternative is coercion, i.e. using the coercive (and punitive) power of government through laws, bureaucrats, and police to dictate what choices are permissible.

The essence of your arguement is that homosexuals cannot pursue their private passion behind closed doors and that somehow government resistance to the redefinition of marriage constitutes "coercion". It does not. It only perpetuates the current situation and codifies the one man one woman concept of marriage.

When seen as another step in the political correctness arguement, it amounts to society finding ways to not offend a segment of society that feels they are not "loved and cherished" because they must keep their experiences under wraps. Normalization of homosexuality is another step towards that place in civilization where everyone who is offended gets to have his day. I don't buy in.

115 posted on 12/23/2004 8:34:11 AM PST by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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To: Ernie.cal

What's so good about your agenda of pushing gay marriage?


116 posted on 12/23/2004 8:34:27 AM PST by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: unbalanced but fair
What happens when it does affect you?

That is a good question! I don't know what I would do or think in that situation. That just might change my mind. I also don't fault anyone else for their beliefs or opinions on the subject.

117 posted on 12/23/2004 8:34:45 AM PST by conserv13
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To: Ernie.cal

There is no way around it. This IS a religious matter. Marriage is a sacrament ordained by G_d. It exists to join a man and a woman into a bond that is holy. That this rubs some the wrong way is too bad.

The growing attack on religion that we are witnessing throughout the west goes hand-in-hand with the promotion of homosexuality as a "civil right". The Christian insistance on a responsible and chaste use of the sexual impulse enrages those obsessed by sex (both homo and hetero).


118 posted on 12/23/2004 8:35:08 AM PST by scory
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To: conserv13
Me: Also, would you forbid two brothers marrying? A mother and a daughter over 18? Why or why not would you forbid a father and a daughter over 18 from marrying? On what basis would you forbid it?

You: I wouldn't forbid it. People can do whatever they want, as long as it does not affect me. Also, I really don't think that there is going to be a huge push for father-daughter or brother-brother marriages. But if there are, then good luck to them.

Thanks for your honesty. Now I'll be honest. You are a sick deviant, and I sincerely hope you don't have any interactions with children in your life.

If, for example, father-daughter or father-son "marriages" were legalized and recognized, you would have numerous sick perverts raise their children for the purpose of seduction. As soon as the son or daughter hits 18, presto, "marriage." It would be a pervert's dream come true, and you support it.

Seek help.

119 posted on 12/23/2004 8:35:44 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: DirtyHarryY2K; EdReform

Ping.


120 posted on 12/23/2004 8:36:05 AM PST by scripter (Tens of thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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