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Where Kerry was on Christmas day in '68 matters to November '04
New York Daily News ^ | 8-12-2004 | ZEV CHAFETS

Posted on 08/13/2004 5:56:24 AM PDT by johnny7

(KRT) - John Edwards is supposed to be a great lawyer, but at the recent Democratic convention he made a rookie mistake: He raised a question without knowing the answer. "If you have any questions about what John Kerry's made of, just spend three minutes with the men who served with him," he said. Edwards meant Kerry's "band of brothers" - the small entourage of vets who served under him in Vietnam and now strongly support him for president.

Evidently, Edwards did not know at the time that almost every officer who commanded Kerry or served alongside him opposes his candidacy. Worse, they have formed a group, Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, that claims more than 250 members. Their case against Kerry is set forth in a new book, "Unfit for Command," co-written by longtime Kerry critic John O'Neill, and in a TV ad from the group.

Kerry's critics in arms allege that he didn't deserve one of his Purple Hearts and his Bronze Star. They make these claims on the basis of firsthand knowledge. But combat is notoriously confusing, and soldiers in the heat of battle make poor witnesses. Kerry deserves the benefit of the doubt. If the Navy says he won his medals fair and square, that's good enough for me. What Kerry did (or didn't do) in Cambodia is a different matter. On March 27, 1986, Kerry told his fellow senators: "I remember Christmas of 1968, sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by the Vietnamese and the Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there, the troops were not in Cambodia. "I have that memory, which is seared - seared - in me."

Here's the problem: Kerry's commanding officers and some of his crew members reportedly deny that he was in Cambodia on Christmas 1968. They say he was stationed near the town of Sa Dec, 55 miles from the Cambodian border. Kerry's people are trying hard to discredit his discreditors. They call "Unfit for Command" co-author O'Neill a Republican hack with a decades-long grudge against Kerry. They say Texas moneymen close to Karl Rove are behind the TV spots and are warning TV stations, in writing, not to air them. They maintain that the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth are motivated by jealousy of Kerry or anger at his post-Vietnam antiwar activities. They want to dismiss all questions about Kerry's war record as sleazy slander.

Sorry, but that's not going to wash. The issue is not whether the charges against Kerry are politically motivated (they obviously are) or who is paying for them. There's just one relevant question: Are the allegations true? Specifically, is it true he lied about being in Cambodia?

Unlike the debate over Kerry's medals, this is a matter that can be checked and verified. If it turns out Kerry was there, the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth are liars and their charges are, in the words of Kerry's friend John McCain, "dishonest and dishonorable." But if he wasn't there, the Kerry campaign is saddled with a problem it can't solve by calling Republicans names, threatening TV stations or even bringing up President Bush's less than stellar war record. Kerry has staked his candidacy on Vietnam. His running mate has publicly invited the country to judge Kerry by listening to his comrades in arms. A lot of them, to Edwards' obvious chagrin, are saying that John Kerry is unfit for command.

If it turns out he made up the story of Christmas in Cambodia, they could very well be right.

Zev Chafets is a columnist for the New York Daily News, 450 West 33rd Street, New York, N.Y. 10001;
e-mail: zchafets@yahoo.com.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; aidandcomfort; antiamerican; bronze; cambodia; christmasincambodia; christmasncambodia; hanoijohn; hanoikerry; iaintfondajohn; issues; johnkerry; kerry; kerrylieddotcom; kerrylies; ketchup; ketchupmoney; liar; liarliarliar; lyingliar; military; militaryrecord; nixonblaming; powbetrayal; purpleheart; scambodia; sedition; skerrykerry; swift; swiftboat; swiftvetsdotcom; tang; thatstheticket; traitor; treason; unamerican; unfit; unfitforcommand; vet; veteran; veterans; veteransforbush; vets; vietnam; warcrimes; warcriminal; whenever; wintersoldierdotcom
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Pat Buchanan has also picked up on Kerry's 'Apocalypse Now' re-creation. This is starting to germinate.

Red blooded Americans will never vote for a turd who blatantly romanticizes and in some cases, fabricates military heroics.

1 posted on 08/13/2004 5:56:24 AM PDT by johnny7
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To: johnny7
Does anyone have the link where Kerry's friend John McCain says the Vietcong used Skerry's words and deeds to lower morale of the prisoners of war?
2 posted on 08/13/2004 6:02:42 AM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Liberals are like catfish ( all mouth and no brains )(bottom feeders))
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To: johnny7

Kerry's band of naive dupes must tell what happened, hopefully separately. The Christman story just may be the story that discredits them. Santa suits with long long noses would be nice.


3 posted on 08/13/2004 6:03:43 AM PDT by tkathy (The choice is clear. Big tent or no tent.)
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To: tkathy
Now Kerry's trying to spin the Christmas timeline into January. This leads me to two questions:
  1. Was the event seared or not seared into his memory?
  2. Why would the allies be drunk and shooting at him celebrating Christmas in January?

4 posted on 08/13/2004 6:09:33 AM PDT by reegs
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To: johnny7

How is it that the New York Daily News is finding itself telling the truth.


5 posted on 08/13/2004 6:10:04 AM PDT by OldFriend (WAR IS THE REMEDY OUR ENEMIES HAVE CHOSEN)
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To: OldFriend

"soldiers in the heat of battle make poor witnesses"

What does the writer base this on? I still remember combat encounters in Somolia very vividly. Time *slows* into freeze frames.

Also note that Kerry was *not* in the heat of battle when he fished the man out of the water. Swift boat vets confirm that enemy action had ceased when Kerry's boat returned to the scene.


6 posted on 08/13/2004 6:28:43 AM PDT by Fenris6
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran
From History News Network:
Today, many American veterans and their families deem Kerry's past public excoriation of U.S. troops as unforgivable acts bordering on treason. As a result, veterans have formed several groups opposing Kerry's presidential ambitions. The root cause of their anti-Kerry sentiment is summarized by the publication U.S. Veteran Dispatch , which notes that Kerry's aforementioned testimony “occurred while some of his fellow Vietnam veterans were known by the world to be enduring terrible suffering as prisoners of war in North Vietnamese prisons.” Indeed, Senator John McCain has stated that his North Vietnamese captors had used reports of Kerry-led protests to taunt him and his fellow prisoners. Retired General George S. Patton III angrily charged that Kerry's actions were giving “aid and comfort to the enemy.”

Also, link of interest: POW against kerry

7 posted on 08/13/2004 6:28:58 AM PDT by exhaustedmomma (Bias is not necessarily propaganda. HOWEVER, bias is necessary to propaganda.)
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To: exhaustedmomma

Think you


8 posted on 08/13/2004 6:32:34 AM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Liberals are like catfish ( all mouth and no brains )(bottom feeders))
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To: reegs
Now Kerry's trying to spin the Christmas timeline into January

They are probably frantically trying to find a day in January when Kerry's whereabouts are not accounted for so they can plug Cambodia into the gap.

9 posted on 08/13/2004 6:34:16 AM PDT by knuthom
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To: johnny7

The thing about the 'brilliant' Edwards' 'great' speech is that in saying that the country and soldiers deserve a commander-in-chief who knows what they are going through and who has been there, the guy not only disqualifies President Bush, but also himself, who correct me if I'm wrong was arguing a few months ago that he would be a better President than Kerry. It would also disqualify anyone who didn't serve, like Hillary, and Barack Obama, and .......


10 posted on 08/13/2004 6:40:00 AM PDT by Aetius
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To: tkathy
Kerry's band of naive dupes must tell what happened, hopefully separately.

Yup! Reminds me of the movie 'Mississippi Burning'. I liked the way Gene Hackman singled out the weak-link in the 'band of dimwits'.

Somebody's lying here people... yessa' someone is slingin' the shit pretttty heavy!

11 posted on 08/13/2004 6:40:19 AM PDT by johnny7 (“You know... my 40 ft. Hinckley is named ''The Scaramouch'!” -Jawn Fawbs Karrie)
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To: reegs
Why would the allies be drunk and shooting at him celebrating Christmas in January?

Why would they be celebrating Christmas at any time? - they are predominately Buddhists or Taoists

12 posted on 08/13/2004 6:41:16 AM PDT by Wil H
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To: knuthom

Just change the name of the movie to Apocalypse Now And Then


13 posted on 08/13/2004 6:43:21 AM PDT by airstrike
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To: johnny7

get real....Clinton was voted in TWICE! The Liberal American people have lost their souls....they DESPISE Christians and goodness and TRUTH.


14 posted on 08/13/2004 6:46:29 AM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: johnny7

It should matter. Kerry promoted the "Christmas in Cambodia" to subert his own government. This should be the issue to all Americans.


15 posted on 08/13/2004 6:51:22 AM PDT by Toespi
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To: Wil H

Actually, there were a lot of Catholics in Vietnam. Many of them now belong to my parish here in S. Calif. where we celebrate a Mass in Vietnamese each Sunday.


16 posted on 08/13/2004 7:02:49 AM PDT by Aunt Polgara
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To: Ann Archy
Oh I'm quite real. Notice that I said “Red-blooded Americans”.

I realize that I speak of a minority... but this minority has been known to swing elections.

GET IT? OK NOW?

17 posted on 08/13/2004 7:09:48 AM PDT by johnny7 (“You know... my 40 ft. Hinckley is named ''The Scaramouch'!” -Jawn Fawbs Karrie)
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To: All

I don't know what the problem is here, why doesn't the Pentagon just release all of Kerry's records, after all, Ken Bacon did that with Linda Tripp's records and it didn't seem to bother anyone, especially the media (/sarcasm off)


18 posted on 08/13/2004 7:49:08 AM PDT by anoldafvet (Real heros don't leave combat after 4 months, they stay till the job's done.)
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To: johnny7
Am I arrogant enough to think I can give good, solid advice to sKerry? You betcha! And most of my fellow FReepers could as well. So, here goes:

Senator sKerry, if you have any genuine military records showing you were in Cambodia at all, let alone Christmas, 1968, now would be a good time to be showing them to us. If not, well, you be in a heap o' trouble son. Maybe you've caught the Goreon disease.

19 posted on 08/13/2004 8:17:02 AM PDT by upchuck (Words from sKerry or Actions from President Bush? You decide.)
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To: johnny7

bttt


20 posted on 08/13/2004 8:36:55 AM PDT by Christian4Bush (I approve this message: character and integrity matter. Bush/Cheney '04)
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