Split Between English and Scots Older Than Thought

Scottish Press Association ^ | Sun 11 Apr 2004 | Louise Gray

[SunkenCiv]

Traditionally the difference between the English and Scots, Welsh, Irish and Cornish was attributed to the foreign influence of invading forces such as the Anglo-Saxons, Celts and Vikings settling in different areas of Britain hundreds of years ago. But Professor Stephen Oppenheimer of Oxford University, believes the difference originates much further back in history... The professor of clinical sociomedical sciences at Oxford University said the Celts of Western Scotland, Wales, Ireland and Cornwall are descended from an ancient people living on the Atlantic coast while Britain was still attached to mainland Europe, while the English are more closely related to the Germanic peoples of the interior. As evidence he cites genetic data showing the Celts are more closely related to the Basque people of south west France and the Celts of Brittany and Spain, while the English are closer to the Germans descended from the Anglo Saxons... said Britons are descended from the original settlers, rather than later invasions, and as such were already split by the western divide.

[SunkenCiv]

Could have sworn I'd seen this on FR. Oh well...

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.

[Torie]

The Vikings are left out here, but then the Normans were Vikings too.

[cajungirl]

Bump for later

[SunkenCiv]

Instead of a GGG ping for now, just the managers, plus three folks who posted in the "Ancient Germans weren't so fair" who are not on the GGG list. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.

[SunkenCiv]

Yup, and Hrolf the Ganger (founder of the House of Normandy) was also progenitor of a short-lived royal house that ruled a kingdom in Sicily.

[Luke]

The professor of clinical sociomedical sciences at Oxford University said the Celts of Western Scotland, Wales, Ireland and Cornwall are descended from an ancient people living on the Atlantic coast while Britain was still attached to mainland Europe...

I see the professors are still teaching 'theory' ...as fact (when it suits their agenda ...which is to legitimize their existence).

[wizr]

Ping, please.

[xJones]

The professor of clinical sociomedical sciences at Oxford University said the Celts of Western Scotland, Wales, Ireland and Cornwall are descended from an ancient people living on the Atlantic coast while Britain was still attached to mainland Europe, while the English are more closely related to the Germanic peoples of the interior. As evidence he cites genetic data showing the Celts are more closely related to the Basque people of south west France and the Celts of Brittany and Spain, while the English are closer to the Germans descended from the Anglo Saxons... said Britons are descended from the original settlers, rather than later invasions, and as such were already split by the western divide.

Well, if doesn't make perfect sense, I don't what does. Thank you, Dr. Oppenheimer.

[MegaSilver]

How is this news? This was what I had always read in the books...

[SunkenCiv]

Like a lot of English folks, he repudiates migration as playing a role in the genealogy of peoples -- and he lives on one of the most invaded places on Earth. Ultimately, I think it's just another English repudiation of the Celtic roots of Britain. As one wag wrote of a similar piece of work, eventually the trend of British scholarship on origins will posit the evolution of British ancestors from indigenous reindeer.

[VOA]

bump

[Gumdrop]

Genealogists will tell you that all descendants of Europe have nobility in their family trees. Meaning, of course, that over 1000 years, so many generations have occurred that there is no such thing as a pure Celt or Anglo-saxon or German, or Dane, or even a pure peasant, etc.. I am surprised that this can be classified as news. It is all theory, and also "water over the dam." Migration of armies, peoples, etc. eventually results in lots of intermarrying. We are all mongrels in a way.

[VOA]

Ultimately, I think it's just another English repudiation of the Celtic roots of Britain.

Actually, this is just laying more of the legal defense against my lawsuit
charging the English with oppressing my Welsh forbearors and persuading them
to immigrate to a land of plenty and freedom.

Wait...maybe I'll end up owing the Brits some cash...

(end jocularity)

[Fiddlstix]

Ping

[SunkenCiv]

Heh... as a mongrel, I guess I owe myself money...

[drhogan]

since i am part british, part viking, part german, part irish, and part scottish, i am suing myself for thousands of years of oppression!

[dix]

Dad always told us we were Scotch-Irish. I happen to read a while back all that meant is we were Protestant Irish, but we were Irish. The designation was to separate us from Irish Catholics.

Did I receive accurate information?

[stands2reason]

Scots-Irish are Lowland Scots (Lallans) that settled in Northern Ireland.

[blam]

"Could have sworn I'd seen this on FR. Oh well... "

You did

Here.

[Torie]

Your information is accurate, except your ancestors were imported from Scotland to pacify the Catholic insurrection on the emerald isle. Scot Irish were highly favored immigrants to America, because they were known to be rugged, and facile with the gun, and not too interested in abstractions, and thus were deemed ideal as frontiersmen to pacify the Indians just as they had pacified the Catholic Irish. And that proved to be the case. President Jackson and George Wallace are two prominant Scot Irish American politicians. Perhaps 40 million Americans have some Scot Irish blood as a wild guess. Of course, the clan has been rather totally assimilated at this point. Oh the horror.