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Bush campaign wants church lists
CNN ^ | Friday, July 2, 2004 Posted: 10:40 PM EDT (0240 GMT | N/A

Posted on 07/02/2004 8:36:00 PM PDT by Kerberos

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- President Bush, seeking to mobilize religious conservatives for his reelection campaign, has asked church-going volunteers to turn over church membership directories, campaign officials said on Thursday.

In a move sharply criticized both by religious leaders and civil libertarians, the Bush-Cheney campaign has issued a guide listing about two-dozen "duties" and a series of deadlines for organizing support among conservative church congregations.

A copy of the guide obtained by Reuters directs religious volunteers to send church directories to state campaign committees, identify new churches that can be organized by the Bush campaign and talk to clergy members about holding voter registration drives.

The document, distributed to campaign coordinators across the country earlier this year, also recommends that volunteers distribute voter guides in church and use Sunday service programs for get-out-the-vote drives.

"We expect this election to be potentially as close as 2000, so every vote counts and it's important to reach out to every single supporter of President Bush," campaign spokesman Scott Stanzel said.

But the Rev. Richard Land, who deals with ethics and religious liberty issues for the Southern Baptist Convention, a key Bush constituency, said he was "appalled."

"First of all, I would not want my church directories being used that way," he told Reuters in an interview, predicting failure for the Bush plan.

The conservative Protestant denomination, whose 16 million members strongly backed Bush in 2000, held regular drives that encouraged church-goers to "vote their values," said Land.

"But it's one thing for us to do that. It's a totally different thing for a partisan campaign to come in and try to organize a church. A lot of pastors are going to say: 'Wait a minute, bub'," he added.

The guide surfaced as a spate of opinion polls showed Bush's reelection campaign facing a tough battle. (Poll: Sending troops to Iraq a mistake; Interactive: Poll questions and responses)

A Wall Street Journal/NBC poll showed Bush running neck-and-neck with Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry among registered voters, 47 percent of whom said they now believed the president had misled Americans about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

The Bush campaign has also been spending heavily on television ads, only to see the president's approval ratings slump to new lows.

Stanzel said the campaign ended the month of June with $64 million on hand.

He had no figures on how much Bush has raised in June.

At the end of May, Bush had raised $213.4 million and spent all but $63 million.

The latest effort to marshal religious support also drew fire from civil liberties activists concerned about the constitutional separation of church and state.

"Any coordination between the Bush campaign and church leaders would clearly be illegal," said a statement from the activist group Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: 2004; antichristian; badidea; bigmistake; church; churchandstate; electioneering; freedomfromreligion; freedomofreligion; gop; gwb2004; irs; justplainstupid; list; lists; mailinglist; religion; religiousintolerance
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"First of all, I would not want my church directories being used that way,"

"But it's one thing for us to do that. It's a totally different thing for a partisan campaign to come in and try to organize a church. A lot of pastors are going to say: 'Wait a minute, bub'," he added.

Even the leadership of the Southern Baptists understands that this is just wrong.

Oh well, as we boldly move forward to the age of the theocracy.

1 posted on 07/02/2004 8:36:00 PM PDT by Kerberos
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To: Kerberos

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so wrong they only invite Jesse Jackson and his ilk to access their lists!


2 posted on 07/02/2004 8:45:30 PM PDT by Fawnn (Fair Funkle Fawnn, Canteen wOOhOO Consultant, and CookingWithPam.com person)
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To: Fawnn

"Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so wrong they only invite Jesse Jackson and his ilk to access their lists!"

So then I gather you are a supporter of the new theocracy?


3 posted on 07/02/2004 8:49:08 PM PDT by Kerberos (Groups are inherently more immoral than individuals.)
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To: Kerberos
I am not against this idea and would love to get ahold of church lists in my area to use to get my Christian conservative candidate elected.

These church goers need to be educated, and to know that there is a huge difference.
4 posted on 07/02/2004 8:49:11 PM PDT by Delphinium
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To: Delphinium

"These church goers need to be educated"

I can certainly agree with that.


5 posted on 07/02/2004 8:50:46 PM PDT by Kerberos (Groups are inherently more immoral than individuals.)
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To: Kerberos

I haven't decided if I'm for granting direct access to the lists. (I have a feeling based on my experience with conservatives that most would ask church members for permission before their names were forwarded.)

What I AM against is the hypocrisy of those crying wolf about one more thing!


6 posted on 07/02/2004 8:52:00 PM PDT by Fawnn (Fair Funkle Fawnn, Canteen wOOhOO Consultant, and CookingWithPam.com person)
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To: Kerberos

7 posted on 07/02/2004 8:52:22 PM PDT by Tamzee (Noonan on Reagan, "...his leadership changed the world... As president, he was a giant.")
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To: Kerberos

It's pretty crass. Churches have no business aligning themselves with secular political parties, nor should parties be trying to encourage such affiliation.


8 posted on 07/02/2004 8:54:34 PM PDT by Sloth (We cannot defeat foreign enemies of the Constitution if we yield to the domestic ones.)
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To: Sloth

"It's pretty crass. Churches have no business aligning themselves with secular political parties, nor should parties be trying to encourage such affiliation."

Exactly, although there seems to be many so-called conservatives here that can't begin to understand that fundamental truth.

Which makes one wonder, why are they called fundamentalist?

Thanks


9 posted on 07/02/2004 8:59:05 PM PDT by Kerberos (Groups are inherently more immoral than individuals.)
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To: Kerberos

Get real. Kerry can go into a liberal black church and deliver a political speech and the pastor can instruct his parishoners to vote straight Democrap and they will not hear one word from the IRS.

Do you think that the liberals won't institute their own theocracy that worships perversion of all that is good and right?


10 posted on 07/02/2004 8:59:46 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn't be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: Kerberos

I'm not sure I support church directories being given to political parties. But, I don't see any difference between this and the Democrats getting the rolls from Big Unions and swapping donor lists with NPR.


11 posted on 07/02/2004 9:00:10 PM PDT by Azzurri
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To: Kerberos

I think any political party getting lists from churches, in order to contact the parishoners and try to gather support, is wholly preferable to getting the ministers to organize voting drives, etc.


12 posted on 07/02/2004 9:02:35 PM PDT by Behind Liberal Lines
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To: Blood of Tyrants

"Do you think that the liberals won't institute their own theocracy that worships perversion of all that is good and right?"

No.


13 posted on 07/02/2004 9:23:44 PM PDT by Kerberos (Groups are inherently more immoral than individuals.)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

" think any political party getting lists from churches, in order to contact the parishoners and try to gather support, is wholly preferable to getting the ministers to organize voting drives, etc."

Why's that?


14 posted on 07/02/2004 9:25:21 PM PDT by Kerberos (Groups are inherently more immoral than individuals.)
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To: Kerberos

This use to be the function of the Christian Coalition (at least with Protestant Churches). Unfortunately, they have pretty much collapsed.


15 posted on 07/02/2004 9:28:29 PM PDT by gilliam
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To: Azzurri

"I'm not sure I support church directories being given to political parties. But, I don't see any difference between this and the Democrats getting the rolls from Big Unions and swapping donor lists with NPR."

The difference is that the conjoining of the state and religion historically, in almost all instances, has resulted in oppression of the people. There is thousands of years of history to support this position, long before the Christians came along.

However that is what we are currently seeing in our politics today, which is something the founders were strongly against and for the historical reasons, I have cited above.

Which is why the founders incorporated it into our Constitution is that they understood that such an event would be the destruction of the republic. Unfortunately the Republican party has been hijacked in recent years by religious zealots, also know as fundamentalists, who would like nothing more than for the rest of us to forget that truth.


16 posted on 07/02/2004 9:33:41 PM PDT by Kerberos (Groups are inherently more immoral than individuals.)
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To: gilliam

"Unfortunately, they have pretty much collapsed."

I must disagree with your use of the word "unfortunately."


17 posted on 07/02/2004 9:35:18 PM PDT by Kerberos (Groups are inherently more immoral than individuals.)
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To: Kerberos; Sloth
It's pretty crass. Churches have no business aligning themselves with secular political parties, nor should parties be trying to encourage such affiliation."

Exactly, although there seems to be many so-called conservatives here that can't begin to understand that fundamental truth.

What fundamental truth?

Tell me where in the Bible, not religion but the Bible where it tells us not to be aligned with one side, or the other?

There is a clear difference, at least for the time being and Christians must be part of deciding who our leaders are.

God does not want us to be lacking wisdom , and knowledge.

Hsa 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

Proverbs 29:2 “ When the righteous rule, the people rejoice. When the wicked rule, the people groan.”

John Jay, First Chief Justice U.S. Supreme Court – “providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.”

President George Washington – “It is impossible to rightly govern … without God and the Bible
18 posted on 07/02/2004 9:40:08 PM PDT by Delphinium
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To: Kerberos

I am certain of strong acceptance at my congregation.


19 posted on 07/02/2004 9:43:09 PM PDT by Tax Government
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To: Kerberos
Which is why the founders incorporated it into our Constitution

What exactly did the founders incorporate into the Constitution that would keep Christians from being a part.
20 posted on 07/02/2004 9:45:19 PM PDT by Delphinium
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