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More on Kerry's Medals...
email to WinterSoldier.com | March 10, 2003 | David W. Murray

Posted on 03/10/2004 4:02:39 PM PST by Interesting Times

There are some aspects of John Kerry's service in Vietnam which, for me, do not add up. I have seen other articles raising the same questions, but I have been unable to track down the original authors. These observations are mine, and I was there.

I commanded an Army LCM-8 in the Infantry support role in Vietnam, 1968-69. At 73 feet, 65 tons light (120tons laden), I could easily have carried a "Swift" boat as cargo. This was a Sergeant's (E-5) command in the Army. We were tasked to carry infantry on many occasions, throughout the RungSat Special zone west toward the Parrot's Beak, from many units, both US and ARVN. Eventually my 34 boat and SGT Phil Layton's 17 boat were attached semi-permanently, for several months, to the 199th Light Infantry Bde, operating in the "Pineapple area" west of Saigon, up the Vam Co Dong, and to the west of it.

The "Swift" boats, unarmored and unable to carry many troops, were tasked with offshore interdiction and maintaining river superiority in the larger rivers. They did good work, and were frequently engaged, but they typically did not work close-in. The Navy PBR campaign in the smaller rivers and streams is well known, but they, too could not carry troops. That task was carried out by the converted LCM-6s of the MRF, and on a smaller scale, by our LCM-8s attached to the 199th LIB and other units. We lived with the Infantry, supported them, maneouvered them (I could carry a full company), and extracted them if they got into trouble. We would have known of any such widespread atrocities as alleged by Kerry, and in 15 months, I saw or heard of none. We knew our rules of engagement. I have personally received fire from a village and did not return it, as that was exactly what the NVA wanted us to do.

Some of my questions are as follows:

- Purple Hearts; Kerry was awarded three Purple Hearts, yet his records reportedly show no loss of duty time. I have a Purple Heart. I was hit in the posterior with a dime-sized piece of 81mm frag, which travelled 5 inches, and was surgically removed at Bn. Aid. I could walk without problems, and voluntarily returned to the boat in a few days, but the medical report called for two weeks limited duty. In the 199th LIB, you didn't get a PH for a minor piece of frag extracted by the squad medic and covered with a band-aid, or every man in the Brigade would have about six.

- Early Out; Kerry then invoked a Naval Reg allowing an early out for those three Purple Hearts. I wonder how he told his crew. "Hey, guys, I'm going home, enjoy your next eight months." Real morale builder. Real loyalty.

- Silver Star/Bronze Star; I worked with some very active, engaged units, and have never heard of so much hardware being collected so quickly, and for comparitively "everyday" actions. For example, notwithstanding my boat's NINE watertight compartments, the NVA sank me in the Song Ben Luc with two rounds of recoilless rifle fire in an ambush. SGT Phil Layton, behind me, immediately dropped his bow ramp and drove INTO A KNOWN AMBUSH to push my sinking boat out of the kill zone. He was not written up for any award for this action, it simply wasn't sufficiently out of the ordinary in that unit. I stand in awe of the doings of some of the men of the Brigade who never received an award of any kind. They figure the CIB covers it. I guess it does.

Additionally, in later years, Major General Frederic E. Davison told me that he became so frustrated when in command of the Brigade, upon sending up reccomendations for the Silver Star or higher, only to have them downgraded to ARCOM-V, that he began awarding the Bronze Star-V, which was his highest authorized direct award, even when he felt a higher award was warranted. (SGT Layton later received one such, for another action.)

- Kerry's SS Action; As I understand it, his boat was fired upon by a B-40 (Chinese copy of a Soviet RPG), and Kerry's Fifty Cal. gunner returned fire, hitting the NVA gunner, whereupon Kerry ran the boat on the beach, jumped off, chased and shot the Enemy with an M-16, and returned with the empty launcher. Had I ever made so many bonehead mistakes in an action, I would have had a VERY uncomfortable interview with the Battalion Commander, who would have busted me to WAC apprentice, for starters.

1 - Swift and PBR doctrine would have been to turn away from a B-40, as they had the speed to open the range rapidly. We would have turned toward it, as we were slower, and the ramp was the strongest part of the boat.

2 - In my experience, a person hit by a Fifty doesn't get up. (I had two) The "high powered" AK-47 threw a 125 grain bullet at about 2400 fps, the Fifty a 700 grain bullet at 2900 fps. Do the math. Kinetic energy equals one-half the mass times the square of the velocity.

3 - I have never heard of an NVA B-40 gunner carrying a secondary weapon, Once fired, he was unarmed. This implies that Kerry killed a wounded, unarmed enemy. First, if true, this was despicable. Second, it was stupid, as a live prisoner was a highly valued prize as an intel source.

4 - I would very possibly have been brought up on charges for leaving the boat in a firefight. The boat would be leaderless while I was absent, it could not return fire, as I would be out in front, and it could not withdraw. I would have grounded the boat only to insert Infantry, should that be decided as the best course. My boat was a force multiplier, and my job was to fight my boat, not run around on my own. I am privileged to know real heroes, many of whom hold no award, but a guy who wanted to be a hero used to scare hell out of me. Still does.

John Kerry is entitled to any views he wishes to hold about the war, if anti-war, so be it. On his return, he got involved with the VVAW (See Jug Burkett's "Stolen Valor" ISBN: 096670360X). In sworn testimony to Congress, he accused the US Military of a calculated campaign of torture, atrocity, rape, and murder. All of us.

How can he be so proud of his service, having committed atrocities?

- Oh, he didn't do it?

Then, if he saw them, did he report them, as is required of a Naval officer?

- Oh, he didn't see them?

Then how could he so testify, if all he had to go on was the Leftist Big Lies of the time?

If Bush's remarks about WMDs are lies, then John Kerry's testimony certainly were lies of a much higher order. By those lies, he broke faith with me, and with all those he accused. He was disloyal to me and to us, and such disloyalty is about as low as one can go.


TOPICS: Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; atrocities; johnkerry; kerry; medals; militaryrecord; swiftboat; vietnam; wintersoldier
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To: stoney
I'm starting to wonder if Kerry and his powerful Kennedy associates didn't have his tour and medals pretty much scripted before he ever went to Vietnam. They needed a clean-cut, upper class officer with heroic combat experience to front their disinformation campaign. Kerry was a perfect fit for the part, and was hungering for a political career.
61 posted on 03/11/2004 7:22:00 AM PST by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: river rat; Travis McGee
Typically a swift boat commander was a PO 1st class not a commissioned officer. Yes there were commissioned officers who commanded some of the swift boats but typically they were in command of a whole unit of swift boats. Yes, some swift boats were used for insertion extraction of Seal boat crews but this whole thing stinks.
62 posted on 03/11/2004 7:24:02 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: river rat
"Wonder why nobody tracks them down?"

Bush had to account for every hour he was in the NG so why not Kerry? Could it be that there are no 'witnesses'? Do we really know where he was all of those four months? How long did he actually stay at each post? We know there is no one who witnessed the Silver Star incident, but is there also no one who actually saw him shot and bleeding? I don't care about the one guy he saved because that's just his and Kerry's word, but again, are there actual witnesses?

63 posted on 03/11/2004 8:00:39 AM PST by mtbopfuyn
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To: Interesting Times
"You know, I wonder if the FR Network Columnists' Corner might like to give it some airplay..."

Where is the FR Network Columnists' Corner? I don't see a link to it. Is it a feature page of this website?

64 posted on 03/11/2004 8:01:10 AM PST by redhead (You can’t "out mother" your mother. Don’t even try.)
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To: Interesting Times
First of all I want to thank you for your service to our country. You make some very good points in this article. I think if Kerry wants to keep exalting his Vietnam service, he really needs to answer these questions that keep coming up.
65 posted on 03/11/2004 8:11:41 AM PST by CougarGA7 (I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I DRANK WHAT!?")
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To: redhead
Where is the FR Network Columnists' Corner? I don't see a link to it. Is it a feature page of this website?

No, it's a feature of the Free Republic Network site. The FR Network is a non-profit that supports freeper activism and does projects to advance the cause of conservatism. Winter Soldier is such a project. That's where this excellent letter analyzing Kerry's Vietnam service showed up.

66 posted on 03/11/2004 8:19:38 AM PST by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: CougarGA7
First of all I want to thank you for your service to our country. You make some very good points in this article. I think if Kerry wants to keep exalting his Vietnam service, he really needs to answer these questions that keep coming up.

Not my article; I just posted it.

Kerry, of course, wants to simultaneously tout his Vietnam service and his anti-war activities, while ducking any tough questions about either.

We'll see how well that works out.

67 posted on 03/11/2004 8:22:00 AM PST by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: Interesting Times
Two Thumbs Up!

Anyone with a brain knows the real deal! Of course the dims don't win elections from people with brains voting.

68 posted on 03/11/2004 8:25:46 AM PST by wingster
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If they do get those votes, then it's from people with a sidedish of corruption tossed in...
69 posted on 03/11/2004 8:26:37 AM PST by wingster
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To: Interesting Times
It wont. Even with the media on his side, this will continue to gather steam and he will have to make some kind of response to it. I don't think he will handle this well when it comes to a head.
70 posted on 03/11/2004 8:32:22 AM PST by CougarGA7 (I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I DRANK WHAT!?")
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To: chesty_puller
Those vets that follow Kerry around are on the ketchup payroll. Seriously.
71 posted on 03/11/2004 8:34:28 AM PST by diotima (Free the Miranda Memos!)
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To: Interesting Times
IMHO, Kerry was building a political career, long before VN. Somebody pulled the right strings, Kerry got in the Navy with a commission, strings got pulled to get into action. When things got hot, strings pulled him out. Then when he felt he had accomplished what he wanted to do, strings pulled him out and into the fertile anti war Massachusetts environment. It must be nice to have a guardian angel. (with the right strings)
72 posted on 03/11/2004 8:41:54 AM PST by oyez
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To: river rat; Doctor Raoul
...more flip-flops than your shower shoes. lol

Now there's a costume for a Kerry Freep. Have you seen Priscilla, Queen of the Desert? (I think that's the proper title)

There's a great outfit that a drag queen wears, made entirely of flip-flops! lol

Pinz
73 posted on 03/11/2004 8:46:12 AM PST by pinz-n-needlez
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To: sine_nomine
Is it true that Gore sustained a paper cut in Viet Nam? Why no medal?

Yes, in addition to a well-deserved Purple Heart for a nasty paper cut, I believe Albert Gore Jr. was awarded the typewriter ribbon with inkpen clusters.

74 posted on 03/11/2004 8:49:53 AM PST by mountaineer
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To: river rat
My thoughts exactly, he has so many varieties of conflicting opinions he should rightly be referred to as "Mr Heinz 57 varieties".

Semper Fi back at you
75 posted on 03/11/2004 9:14:17 AM PST by RJS1950
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To: stoney; harpseal; river rat
Stoney, I was a non-combat SEAL from the early 80s, but all of my instructors at BUD/S and all of the E-6s and up from those days were VN era SEALs. Man, they thought you guys were the bravest of the brave. They said you would pull your boats straight into massed gunfire to pull SEALs out, NO MATTER WHAT. They really loved you guys. They really did.
76 posted on 03/11/2004 9:56:05 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: oyez; Howlin; maica
I think your # 72 nails it.
77 posted on 03/11/2004 9:58:17 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
IMO Kerry's service in Vietnam was all conducted according to his preconceived plan. By this, I mean that even while back at Yale he's on record as stating that he wanted to run for President one day.

So Kerry goes to Vietnam with his situation already "war-gamed." He writes himself up for three Purple Hearts from flesh wounds (who knows, they may have been self-inflicted?), and then does something outlandish and writes himself up for the Silver Star (while probably committing a war crime). The only real surprise here (for me) is that somebody actually approved these things! (I also wonder how many times he wrote himself up for things that were NOT approved?)

But at that point he had what he wanted: his ticket OUT of Vietnam (the self-serving coward), as well as his ticket-punch as a "war hero."

Who knows what his anti-war protests were motivated by? Whether they were calculated to appeal to a growing anti-war movement, or his true colors is really unimportant. Either way, it was wrong. (But good publicity for him)

Then he does what any aspiring politician would do: goes to law school, and straight into politics.

Kerry is a schemer and manipulator. I think Bush will kick his butt in the election; but Kerry must never be underestimated concerning what lengths he'll go to accomplish this goal -- it's his life's ambition.

78 posted on 03/11/2004 10:01:18 AM PST by Matthew James (SPEARHEAD!)
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To: pinz-n-needlez
Priscilla, Queen of the Desert?

I love that movie; so sad and so funny at the same time.

79 posted on 03/11/2004 10:06:04 AM PST by Howlin (Charter Member of the Incredible Interlocking Institutional Power!!!!)
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To: Travis McGee
That works for me. Remember he originally picked swiff boats because, at that time, they weren't used in hostile terroritories. Only after he got one did their mission change.

It wasn't long before he was out of there.

Is there any doubt why he doesn't release those records?
80 posted on 03/11/2004 10:07:40 AM PST by Howlin (Charter Member of the Incredible Interlocking Institutional Power!!!!)
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