Dearth Of Information About Christ's Crucifixion Makes It Impossible To Render Accurate Account

WSVN ^

[Caipirabob]

I've got a great source for liberals who don't think we know what happened to Jesus:

Keep in mind that liberals consider that "hate literature".

[AmishDude]

We don't know what happened, but we're going to criticize how Gibson represents it, anyway.

This movie is such a Rorschach test.

[LiteKeeper]

Good job!

[AmishDude]

"Hands" in the ancient world were often taken to mean elbow to fingertip (believed to be the measure of a cubit, BTW).

If the nails were in his palms, his hands would have been ripped apart in a matter of minutes.

[AmishDude]

What you say, though, is profoundly strong evidence that the Shroud is not a purposeful fraud. But it does not prove that it was Christ's shroud.

[AAABEST]

Agreed.

It's hard to believe that with all the leg work involved (contacting professors, research, editing etc.) that must have went in to this nifty piece, they couldn't take two seconds and type "nailed" into any kind of search mechanism.

In other words this piece seems to be nothing more than the worst reporting possible or an intentional blatant lie.

[BlessedBeGod]

So, since there's so little info, maybe we can go so far as to say it never even happened. < /sarcasm >

[Verginius Rufus]

The English translation you are using of Acts reads something into the text that isn't there in the Greek--the Greek word means "to affix to a cross" but doesn't indicate whether a nail is involved or not. On the other hand, the Greek texts of John 20.25 and Colossians 2.14 do show that nails were used. See my post #129 on thread 1081493 (there is a link at post #7 of this thread).

[Protagoras]

Nothing that the non Christian Crossen says changes anything material about the crucifixion.

[Happy2BMe]

"I consulted a huge number of theologians, scholars, priests, spiritual writers," Gibson wrote. "The film is faithful to the Gospels but I had to fill in a lot of details -- like the way Jesus would have carried His cross, or whether the nails went through the palms of His hands or his wrists ... Since the experts canceled each other out, I was thrown back on my own resources to weigh the different arguments and decide for myself."

The devil shows up with his artful and crafty confusion even before Passion hits the streets . .

This rendition of the Crucifixtion of Christ must really have all the demons of Hollywood cringing in their holes.

[Recovering_Democrat]

Thanks for the clarification, Verg. I am not a student of the original languages, obviously. :)

[Chris Talk]

Since these writers will not accept the historical facts in the New Testament, they try to write their own poorly researched "hysterical" novels about their imaginings as to what THEY think OUGHT to have happened instead.

If anybody uses the expression "historical Jesus," remember that that means their own fiction, not the Scriptural facts.

[Alberta's Child]

You're right. That's just one piece of evidence.

In my opinion, the piece of evidence that is even more compelling than just the location of the nail wounds is the "four-finger" phenomenon on the Shroud. If you look closely at the image, it appears from the configuration of the hands that the person who was wrapped in the Shroud is missing both thumbs.

This in fact is the result of a reflexive action of the human body when one of the three major nerves in the wrist (I believe it is the ulnar nerve) is damaged -- in effect, the thumb is drawn across the palm of the hand in such a way that from the "back" side of the hand it is no longer visible.

Again, this does not "prove" that the Shroud is authentic -- but the notion that someone in the 12th century would have been able to account for this kind of detail borders on preposterous.

[aruanan]

Dearth Of Information About Christ's Crucifixion Makes It Impossible To Render Accurate Account

There is more historical information for the crucifixion of Jesus and information that is closer to the event in question than there is for anything else during that era.

[aruanan]

These folks like Zias are either utter morons or deliberately not wanting to know.

[discostu]

I notice it never occurs to these guys that it's not an either or proposition. You could nail somebody to the cross AND tie them up, the obvious advantage being that more open wound hastens bleeding to death. I'm also kind of amazed that they'd want Mel to go against the religious iconography just for their version of accuracy; if I were making a movie about the crucifiction even if I had absolute proof positive that no nail ever touched Jesus' flesh I'd still have him nailed to the cross in the movie. Don't mess with 2000 year-old symbols all that will happens is everybody will discuss that 1 moment in the film and ignore everything else.

[Redcloak]

The only skeleton of a crucified person ever recovered indicated that the two arms were tied to a crossbar, and two nails were used in either shinbone.

This is incorrect. I've have heard of at least one skeleton being recovered of a person known to have been crucified that showed nail wounds through the wrists. The radius bones showed wear consistent with the victim pushing himself up to breath and then slouching back down. The pivot points for the arms were the nails. At these points, the nails began to wear notches into the bone.

[AmishDude]

I saw a documentary on this once. The points you brought up were on the pro side. There was some testing that suggested that it could not have been from the first century. (I don't think it was carbon-14, but it might have been.)

[jnarcus]

Most of which was written almost a thousand years after his death....

[Taliesan]

This in fact is the result of a reflexive action of the human body when one of the three major nerves in the wrist (I believe it is the ulnar nerve) is damaged -- in effect, the thumb is drawn across the palm of the hand in such a way that from the "back" side of the hand it is no longer visible.

Median. The motor supply to the thenar musculature (the bulky base of the thumb on the palm side) is part median, part ulnar. The median nerve passes almost dead center across the wrist, the ulnar on the ulnar side (little finger side).

A nail driven into the center of the wrist, to pass between the radius and ulna, would impinge the median nerve.