Something's fishy.

The Essex Soapbox ^ | February 17, 2004 | Mike Morrison

[Bubba_Leroy]

I've long thought that John Kerry's war record was phoney. We talked about it when you were here. It's mainly been instinct because, as you know, nobody who claims to have seen the action he does would so shamelessly flaunt it for political gain.

I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command.

Here are my problems and suspicions:

(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job. But that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs. Fishy.

(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp.. All injuries so minor that no time lost from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour.. Fishy.

(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 (rocket propelled grenade) was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin .50 (caliber machine guns), Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retrieves the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong. (a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go (away) balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a Frisbee after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's. (b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you - just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring-do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too. (c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It couldn't run and it couldn't return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.

Something is very fishy.

Here we have a JFK wannabe who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get a good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early, requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for Congress, finds out war heros don't sell well in Massachusetts in 1970 so reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting, winds up in the Senate himself a few years later, votes against every major defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after the Wall (Berlin) came down, votes against the Gulf War, a big mistake since that turned out well, decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading Iraq, but oops, that didn't turn out so well so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to war.

I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering out flanks in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander in Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some documented facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record.

I know in my gut it's wildly inflated. And fishy.

This e-mail was written by Mike Morrison, who won a bronze star in Vietnam and who is now retired, but wrote speeches for Lee Iacocca for many years. It was sent to his brother Ed, who sent it to one of our readers who follows such matters. -Ed.-

[A Citizen Reporter]

Sorry, I didn't "misinterpretate" anything that you said. I just repeated it. If you don't like what you said you ought to own up to it. And I don't intend to "mark" anything that you say, based on your remarks on this thread. But thanks anyway.

[js1138]

My problem with you is that we seem to be on the same side, but you want to pick a fight over strategy. I'm right on this one. You will not see an official Republican demand for Kerry's military records.

[Congressman Billybob]

Yours is the most sensible post on this thread. This is not an issue the general public can make heads ot tails of. They would see it as "attacking a war veteran." But others who served in Vietnam WILL be talking to each other, and e-mailing each other. THEY will reach THEIR conclusions about this.

And if more Vietnam veterans wind up working to defeat Kerry, rather than to elect him, THAT will be the answer to the question raised in this thread.

Congressman Billybob

Click here, then click the blue CFR button, to join the anti-CFR effort (or visit the "Hugh & Series, Critical & Pulled by JimRob" thread). Don't delay. Do it now.

[js1138]

You did not repeat what I said. You did not quote me and you did not correctly paraphrase what I said. Fortunately the Republicans will not be listening to hotheads.

This issue will come to light, but it will not be spearheaded by Bush or the RNC.

[sarasmom]

What are you?
Stupid?
Or just so reflexively politically partisan you no longer care what the politicians you support actually stand for?
Rent a clue!

[js1138]

I really regret making this a flame war, but some people can't read English. There's a difference between "Republicans" and "the Republicans". I guess they don't teach that in public school.

[sarasmom]

So Republican Veterans are not "official" Republicans?

Have you ever explored the concept of elected, representative government?

This is not a test.
This is not a game.
This is the real world.

But thanks for playing!

[A Citizen Reporter]

I am sure you regret making this a flame war. I, for one, am sick and tired of hearing from where an argument can credibly come. I'm sick to death of it. And if I'm not a Vietnam vet, but I take offense at John Kerry's "medal record" and I happen to be a "REPUBLICAN" you can damn well better that I'm going to ask for the records to be made public. I think you came on this thread to squelch those kinds of remarks.

[js1138]

I hope your kids aren't home schooled.

If you are a spokesperson for the RNC or any national organization devoted to reelecting George Bush, my guess is you will not be bringing up this issue. That is what I mean and that is what I said. In fact, if it does come up, I suspect that Bush will brush it off as unimportant. This is a prediction.

If you don't understand why, then you simply don't understand politics. And you probably don't understand why bush keeps getting elected.

I do hope that Drudge will find a way to keep it in the news.

[Miss Marple]

I distinctly remember reading that before he left Viet Nam, Kerry made sure that his crew had other assignments away from combat. How would he be able to do this? I thought this very odd, since it seems to me that a lieutenant would not have the authority to do this.

[ampat]

I always wonder how he received a silver star for shooting one enemy. I have yet to read his citation posted anywhere.

[cajungirl]

Kerry requested the boat duty when it was not dangerous and the mission changed after he got his swift boat. I do think the republicans cannot spearhead this without significant risk. The Vets have to do it. I think he is a phoney, wrote up his own citations and used whatever he needed to get out of Viet Nam. He seems to be the ultimate opportunist. But for pubs to attack his war record is extrememly perilous in my opinion.

[Twinkie]

My Dad had a bronze star. It took me almost until he
was eighty years old to even find out the name of the
battle he was in - Laiatico, Italy WWII. You are right.
The interminable "and you do know I was in Vietnam and
have seen real aircraft carriers, don't you?" doesn't add
up all that well. - Bumpity bump.

[MeekOneGOP]

Interesting. Thanks !

I've long thought that John Kerry's war record was phoney. We talked about it when you were here. It's mainly been instinct because, as you know, nobody who claims to have seen the action he does would so shamelessly flaunt it for political gain.

I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command.

Here are my problems and suspicions ....

[OldFriend]

No way on earth is the Bush administration going to impugn Kerry's service in Viet Nam.

Nor should they!

[mabelkitty]

Same here.
In fact, about a month ago, My VV husband asked me to Google his military service because nothing was adding up.

[MEG33]

"There was never an implication that Veterans had their own separate party.I have no idea why you are misreading the suggestion that a vet has more credibility than anyone to question medal inflation.

This would be a dangerous path for the Campaign because questioning someone's bravery,heroics is very tricky.The perception could be offensive to a lot of voters.

I hope some great researchers can find out if Kennedy was"sponsoring" him,making a Silver Star more easily approved.

[Argh]

Thank you. Everything about this guy smells.

[section9]

Wow, that's a fairly severe take-down.

That is a very severe take-down. Nay, a smack-down worthy of a Texas Cage Death Match.

John Kerry's Silver Star citation has always bugged me. He won it after beaching his boat, jumping off his boat, and going after a wounded man to administer the coup de grace. I just don't get it.

When he beached his boat, he took away the one defense the Swift Boat truly had, it's mobility. Put yourself in an officer's position: your boat takes B-40 fire from the shore, Victor Charles gets up to fire another round at you, your 50 Man takes him down, and then you head into shore, beach your boat, abandon your vessel to make sure that B-40 Charlie is dead, dead, dead?

What if B-40 Charlie had been bait for a VC platoon hiding in the reeds or the thick foliage along the river? Kerry and his crew might have been captured, killed, and his boat damaged beyond repair.

I just don't get the citation, that's all. I would have reprimanded the young sumbitch, too. No, I would not have relieved him; Kerry was a young JG right out of 90 Day Wonder School. He wasn't in-country long enough to get laid, for God's sakes, so we shouldn't expect him to have developed any battlewise common sense by the time this happened. Unfortunately, you don't develop good officers without allowing them to learn from their mistakes. But he did put his boat in danger when it didn't have to be. I can only hope that some senior chief or Kerry's division CO had a good Come to Jesus conversation with him afterwards.

Now I was never in Vietnam, nor even in uniform for that matter, but there are things here that just violate all the laws of thermodynamics. There may have been a reason that Kerry sicked his bitches in the Mainstream Press on George W. Bush's ANG records. I think we're getting close to the reason why.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[Conspiracy Guy]

Regardless of his real record. This all sounds plausible. I thank him for his service, but that is the end of my thanks. So I wrote this little rhyme for Senator Kerry.

Kerry

I thank you for your service,
Way back in Viet Nam.
But that is no free ticket,
To let you pull this scam.
You spit upon our nation,
Betrayed our young brave men.
You called them baby killers,
It’s not true now, nor then.
You sir are just low life scum,
You prey upon rich chicks.
I hope Teresa sees the light,
And dumps your bag of tricks.
I’ll vote for Bush this coming fall,
And pray that you don’t win.
For if you win, we all will lose,
Our freedom will cave in.

Conspiracy Guy 2/16/4