Herodotus On The Origins of Language

The History of Herodotus | Book II. The Second Book of the Histories, Called Euterpe | Translated Into English by G. C. Macaulay | Project Gutenberg Ebook 2707
Now the Egyptians, before the time when Psammetichos 1 became king over them, were wont to suppose that they had come into being first of all men; but since the time when Psammetichos having become king desired to know what men had come into being first, they suppose that the Phrygians came into being before themselves, but they themselves before all other men.

Now Psammetichos, when he was not able by inquiry to find out any means of knowing who had come into being first of all men, contrived a device of the following kind: -- Taking two new-born children belonging to persons of the common sort he gave them to a shepherd to bring up at the place where his flocks were, with a manner of bringing up such as I shall say, charging him namely that no man should utter any word in their presence, and that they should be placed by themselves in a room where none might come, and at the proper time he should bring to them she-goats, and when he had satisfied them with milk he should do for them whatever else was needed. These things Psammetichos did and gave him this charge wishing to hear what word the children would let break forth first, after they had ceased from wailings without sense.

And accordingly so it came to pass; for after a space of two years had gone by, during which the shepherd went on acting so, at length, when he opened the door and entered, both the children fell before him in entreaty and uttered the word bekos, stretching forth their hands. At first when he heard this the shepherd kept silence; but since this word was often repeated, as he visited them constantly and attended to them, at last he declared the matter to his master, and at his command he brought the children before his face.

Then Psammetichos having himself also heard it, began to inquire about what nation of men named anything bekos, and inquiring he found that the Phrygians had this name for bread. In this manner and guided by an indication such as this, the Egyptians were brought to allow that the Phrygians were a more ancient people than themselves.

ok

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Thank you, SunkenCiv.

How can we get past the abstract to the actual paper?

Reading Herodotus' passage alongside Lucretius' De rerum natura and Plato's Cratylus, I argue that Herodotus exploits an ambiguity in terms φωνή and ἔπος in order to point out the particular difficulty of determining where language begins and mere sound-making ends.

That's what I've been saying for years!

/sarc

LOL... yeah, this topic has "Friday Undead" written all over it. Although, not as much as my often-mentioned Bison topic.

Scientists: Bison in Illinois earlier (aren't you relieved?) [09/03/2005]

Y’know, I was curious about that, but I’m also lazy... uh, and it kinda looks like this group is as well, no “add to cart” or “members only”, just one big tease:

https://www.classicalstudies.org/sessionpanel-title/greek-historiography

OMG...

https://www.youtube.com/c/SocietyforClassicalStudies

it kinda looks like this group is as well, no “add to cart” or “members only”,

The laryngeal descent theory (LDT) posits that language became possible in Homo sapiens, so that leaves out modern Greeks. Maybe classical Greeks were of different stock?

https://www.youtube.com/@SocietyforClassicalStudies/videos

Where to start? Better set the alarm clock for midnight.

Wait for it...I can hear it now: Audible farting is a form of speech.

Just my opinion, of course, but language didn't emerge from top-down design (e.g., a king’s experiment) but from bottom-up necessity.

It isn’t something we acquired long after becoming human. It’s something we developed as soon as we need to make meaning—as soon as we realized we were conscious and needed to communicate with another person. Whether it’s warning about a coming storm or a lion in the bush, even the most primitive humans would have found ways to encode reality into sound, gesture, or expression.

That’s symbolic thinking—the essence of language. Even animals have it.

We didn’t wait for grammar books to speak. We wrap our reality in language from the moment we realize sound or gesture can carry meaning. It evolves with our needs, our surroundings, and our relationships—just like the personal “language” many of us use with animals.

Language isn’t a cultural artifact layered on top of thought. It is thought, externalized—a living system of symbols shaped by survival, emotion, and connection.

charging him namely that no man should utter any word in their presence, and that they should be placed by themselves in a room where none might come,

Ahh...a little child abuse in the name of “science”...

laryngeal descent theory [Brave search]
laryngeal descent theory [Google]

I noticed a number of titles listed in the regular website with titles containing stupid leftist terms like “social justice” “DEI” and “Impeachment”, so be aware.

https://www.straightdope.com/21341537/did-a-french-vaudeville-star-once-specialize-in-trained-flatulence

Assuming it actually happened, it was well before there was science, which is a method rather than a body of knowledge.

It’s both.

He and Kamala would have much to discuss!