Thousands of bones and hundreds of weapons reveal grisly insights into a 3,250-year-old battle

C(linton) N(on) N(ews) ^ | September 24, 2024 | Ashley Strickland, CNN

[SunkenCiv]

There are no written accounts describing the battle, so as teams of archaeologists have unearthed more finds from the valley, they have used the well-preserved remains and weapons to try to piece together the story behind the ancient battle scene.

Now, a team of researchers studying arrowheads used in the battle has discovered evidence that it included local groups as well as an army from the south. These findings, published Sunday in the journal Antiquity, suggest the clash was the earliest example of interregional conflict in Europe — and raise questions about the state of organized, armed violence thousands of years ago...

Previous discoveries of foreign artifacts, such as a Bohemian bronze ax and a sword from southeastern Central Europe, and analyses of the remains have suggested that outsiders fought in the Tollense Valley battle. But the researchers of the new study were curious to see what clues the arrowheads would yield.

When Inselmann and his colleagues analyzed the arrowheads, they realized that no two were identical — not exactly shocking before the days of mass production. But the archaeologists could pick out key differences in the shapes and features that signified some of the arrowheads were not made within Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, a state in northeast Germany that's home to the Tollense Valley.

Inselmann collected literature, data and examples of more than 4,700 Bronze Age arrowheads from Central Europe and mapped out where they came from to compare them with the Tollense Valley arrowheads.

Many matched the style of arrowheads from other sites in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, suggesting they were locally made and carried by men who called the region home, according to the study.

[Red Badger]

Many matched the style of arrowheads from other sites in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, suggesting they were locally made and carried by men who called the region home, according to the study.

It's called 'trade'...................

[TalBlack]

Damn! I wonder how fast the arrow was moving to pierce the bone like that?

[TalBlack]

Didn’t the long bow have some elements of a compound bow?

[Flag_This]

"Didn’t the long bow have some elements of a compound bow?"

The longbow was made of a single piece of yew wood, with the heartwood forming the inside of the bow and the sap wood facing out. The heartwood resisted compression and the sapwood provided elasticity. I think that's how it goes...

[TalBlack]

They found an intact longbow preserved in a cold deep river some years ago. They were “surprised” at how heavy the pull was. For some reason they never said what it actually was. Some bow hunters present when I read the article guessed 200lbs. I’d bet higher given the way they practiced. It’d be nice to know.

[Flag_This]

"They found an intact longbow preserved in a cold deep river some years ago. They were “surprised” at how heavy the pull was."

Archaeologists have discovered the remains of Henry the VIII's ship, the "Mary Rose" and done a ton of research on what they've found. Among the items they recovered were dozens of preserved bow staves for longbows. If I remember correctly, the estimated pull was in the upper 100s to lower 200 pound range. They also recovered skeletal remains of presumed archers, based on the bone development in the shoulder area. I remember one researcher describing their shoulders as "gorilla-like" , but he was probably exaggerating a little. There's a ton of interesting info on the Mary Rose, if you're interested.

I found a cross section of a yew limb to better show how they built those bows:

[TalBlack]

Thanks for that.

Recently I heard the speed of a particular arrow at 100 yds per second. Forget who they were talking about. Think it was the Agincourt guys. That’s a football field in “one Mississippi “. Can you imagine being on the 50 yd line and getting hit by that thing?

[SunkenCiv]

One can’t help but wonder what the losing side had that was so desirable.

[SunkenCiv]

There was no such civilizational collapse, but on an up note, Cline once upon a time signed up for FR just to take me on about that. :^)

[SunkenCiv]

Go for what you know. :^)

[SunkenCiv]

Excedrin headaches were around waaay before Excedrin.

[SunkenCiv]

According to Whoopi, this battle is just another example of white on white violence, so who cares?

[SunkenCiv]

LOL

[SunkenCiv]

One interpretation is, the victims were involved in trade, a bronze age caravan, and the killers wanted to take their stuff. There’s nothing new under the Sun.

[SunkenCiv]

https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/4266956/posts?page=31#31

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks all, good q and a.

Also, due to the Sabbath, one of the only activities permitted and then required was archery. Eventually the Black Death broke down the feudal order, and wage labor led to more activity, more stuff to buy, and archery got replaced by market day. [James Burke, in one of his “connections” “day the universe changed” episodes]

[SunkenCiv]

https://search.brave.com/videos?q=james%20burke%20regarding%20agincourt

[Nateman]

...There was no such civilizational collapse...

Is there a link to that thread? I've watched Cline's 1177 BC video and he made a good argument for it. I'm inclined to believe that Civilization is not guaranteed so having it collapse seems quite plausible.

[SunkenCiv]

The so-called collapse is a consequence of a repeating of a few centuries of history, a mistake created a few hundred years ago before much was known and before scientific dating methods were available. It’s a chimera. The puzzle about why it happened is the wrong question, it didn’t happen.