Ukraine’s Incursion Into Russia Reveals a Dramatic Shift

The New York Times ^ | Aug. 15, 2024 | Julian E. Barnes and Eric Schmitt

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Ukraine’s incursion into a sliver of Russia is likely to make it harder for Moscow to mount a major renewed offensive in Ukraine’s east and is the kind of surprise operation that could eventually impose real costs on the Kremlin, according to U.S. officials.

The Ukrainian strike, and its continued success, could ultimately have strategic significance, though U.S. officials caution that they will need to see how it plays out to draw firmer conclusions. It could also help rebuild sagging morale among Ukraine’s troops and war-weary population, the officials said.

The incursion, into the Kursk region of Russia, stands in stark contrast to Ukraine’s failed counteroffensive in southern Ukraine last summer. This offensive was developed in secret, devised to divert Russian troops away from the front lines in Ukraine and seize territory to use as a bargaining chip.

Ukraine’s monthslong buildup to the counteroffensive played out in the open. The Ukrainians had sought to retake territory but stumbled when they failed to punch through dug-in Russian defenses, which Moscow reinforced as Ukraine trained for the drive. Ukraine also split its forces during that offensive, against American advice, rather than focusing them as they have this month.

The incursion into Russia, in contrast, shows how Ukraine’s army has improved its mechanized warfare skills, techniques that it failed to master a year ago.

[Jumper]

But somewhere along the way, the United States morphed into The Army of Darkness;) Great movie.

[mass55th]

"Events will tell, but Russia’s military has been exposed as badly flawed, even incompetent. Meanwhile, Ukraine’s has proved to be more resilient and capable than was generally expected."

I don't give a shit about either one of them. What I do care about is the billions of unaccounted-for taxpayer dollars being wasted fighting yet another proxy war with Russia. We've been fighting proxy wars with both Russia and China since the Korean War. That's over 70 years, and the only ones who win fighting proxy wars, are the politicians on both sides of the aisles, their family members, and big donors who are raking in the money via their investments in the military industrial complex. Enough already!

[Bruce Campbells Chin]

Groovy!

[Antoninus]

They know this war is ending soon and they want whatever negotiation leverage they can use.

That is correct. But will Russia prolong the war in response to this?

[House Atreides]

“ The reality is men will fight on forever to get foreign invaders off their land.”
***********************************************************

Of course… that’s why Zekensky’s government has to send press-gangs out into Ukrainian streets and neighborhoods to kidnap men and drag them off to the military. Fine group of patriots they’re putting together.

[delta7]

Ukraine sent troops to aid us in Afghanistan
——————
The Ukies have not learned, senile Joe’s Afghanistan ( and Iraq) debacle had many lessons to learn….the collective West learned nothing ( and was defeated in the end) from its forever wars.

The best course for US’s forever wars is to just say no, we will not participate.

[Rockingham]

As a result of the proxy wars and military spending that you scorn, the US and her allies won the Cold War and the Soviet Union was brought to collapse. The world became more peaceful and more free, with the US becoming the world’s sole superpower.

[marktwain]

That's over 70 years, and the only ones who win fighting proxy wars, are the politicians on both sides of the aisles, their family members, and big donors who are raking in the money via their investments in the military industrial complex.

70 years of unexcelled growth and prosperity. Quite an accomplishment for Pax Americana.

[HombreSecreto]

Battle of the Bulgski

No way Ukr can hold that ground.

[mass55th]

And its all turned to shit since then.

[Rockingham]

That is the nature of history.

[rxh4n1]

“That’s OK. The Zeepers are willing to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian life.”

When they run out they’ll spend American lives.

[rxh4n1]

“And its all turned to shit since then.”

Yes, and every time we go overseas to save someone else we end up deeper in debt, wasting our kids lives, and the people we tried to rescue hating us.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

When they run out they’ll spend American lives.

They've been doing that since the 2014 coup they engineered.

[mass55th]

"Yes, and every time we go overseas to save someone else we end up deeper in debt, wasting our kids lives, and the people we tried to rescue hating us."

You definitely get it. Thanks for saying it far better than I ever could.

[mass55th]

"That is the nature of history."

History that is created by the Left whose sole goal is to turn this country into a third-world shit hole, and they've been doing a pretty good job of that. I was born in 1947. I never thought I'd live to see the day when a Presidential election would be so blatantly stolen, and Republicans would vote for fraudulent electors. Prepare for it to happen again if they can't get rid of Trump any other way in the meantime.

[Rockingham]

History, properly understood, is factual and ideologically neutral in analysis -- even if often disconcerting or painful in what it shows. You are correct in identifying the Left as the agent of much of what has gone wrong in the country.

You are also correct in seeing Republican cowardice as a problem, but it stems from larger forces that are poorly recognized. Most of all, the cause of so much cowardice is the fading away of the traditional Christian high culture of the West after the devastation of two World Wars and modern science seemed to discredit Christian faith.

As a result, the best intentioned in politics today -- Republican conservatives -- mean well but often lack courage in a pinch. What remains of civic courage now is best on display among those of a natural fighting disposition, simple faith, and a strong sense of nationhood -- like Trump and Netanyahu. Their angular personalities may be off-putting at times but also mark them as authentic.

As for the Russian war on Ukraine, my sympathies are with Ukraine. Especially when circumstances are clouded, I tend to align on the side of the courageous small guy attacked by the nasty bully. Today and throughout history, Russia is almost always the bully. As all bullies do, Russia has her reasons, but they do not make sense.