MORE EVIDENCE - 2 Miles from Lahaina Fire A Melted Car Surrounded by Gravel! D.E.W. or What? (IMAGES from video and video links)

YOUTUBE.com ^ | 8/28/2023 | Hawaii Real Estate

[ransomnote]

ransomnote: The first video was recorded outside the restricted zone. The video features a car on the shoulder of the road supposedly burned from the nearby grassfire (car is essentially melted except for steel frame - steering colum, steering wheel, glass etc.) with most of the terrain surrounding it intact. I put several still images taken from the video below for those who don't want to watch it.

Just a few notes:
Police forbid access to the fire locations and tell people outside the restricted zone not to take pictures (from roadside - facing into the zone).

Near the bottom of this post I put the link to a second video taken inside the restricted zone. That video features 2 cars, essentially melted except for steel framing. They are surrounded by untouched property, houses etc.

(Note that the second video is linked near the bottom and images from the 2018 Paradise fire have been liked at the end of this post)

Internet searches indicate average temperature of grass fires ranges from around 300 degrees farenheit up to 700 degres Farenheit(F).

Automotive glass melts at 2552°F to 2912°F

Steel melts at 2700°F

Aluminum melts at  1220°F

Cast Iron melts at  2200°F

IMAGES FROM Lahaina fire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9L9WvlCli0

https://i.imgur.com/6vHt8ZG.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/iPMu3g2.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/Nqp21B0.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/KNXi33m.jpeg

photographed in through driver's window - steering column and wheel is gone

https://i.imgur.com/0mjmt80.png

https://i.imgur.com/vuHXxc8.png

crumbling aluminum roof rack

https://i.imgur.com/gYrsW2m.png

https://i.imgur.com/dzNXwjF.png

looking at the terrain in front of the car

https://i.imgur.com/ecbv8Bd.png

in front to the right

https://i.imgur.com/gJydu4m.jpeg

the view behind the car

https://i.imgur.com/vH5UkBQ.png

standing off center to the passenger side of the  front of the car and facing the highway a little toward the drivers side

https://i.imgur.com/PZI1ZDd.jpeg

standing off center to the drivers side of the car  of the car and facine back and to the passenger side of the car

https://i.imgur.com/Iyd1qDT.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/Rf32uZ6.jpeg

looking in through passenger window

https://i.imgur.com/4OC2WBs.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/tn2NEaN.jpeg

windshield melted in the center of the pic

https://i.imgur.com/ymZP4Ot.jpeg

Back of vehicle - I think I see a little circular pile of wires on the ground where the spare tire burned off the bracket

https://i.imgur.com/R6HSbpT.jpeg

puddle of metal beneath the center back bumper

https://i.imgur.com/gcKAGRO.jpeg

closer to the puddle of metal behind the car

https://i.imgur.com/atCKdcF.png

behind the car on the ground, looks like wires from the spare and molten metal from the wheel

https://i.imgur.com/j8SRr68.jpeg

cell phone?

https://i.imgur.com/GfIsUlk.jpeg

photograph facing the drivers side - shows it's an SUV

https://i.imgur.com/BpEmRqU.jpeg

looking from the passenger side over the hood of the car to the front right

https://i.imgur.com/XEfYYvw.png

terrain behind the car again

https://i.imgur.com/k2qSL6e.png

facing the passenger side of almost the whole car

https://i.imgur.com/uPVVJuT.jpeg

front bumper from drivers side

https://i.imgur.com/yuMnheN.png

front bumper from passenger side

https://i.imgur.com/wFJaKBy.jpeg

engine

https://i.imgur.com/sM3b9cF.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/mDir3Mk.jpeg

Above images are from the first 8 minutes of the recording.

The police arrived at around the 23 minute mark and told the men to leave, talked with the men a little, and then escorting the walking men back to their cars by following in a patrol car. Two more patrol cars can be seen arriving in the background. At the 34 minute mark, the person featured in the video closes the recording with a prayer that the information reaches the public. He encourages people to help by donating to those impacted.

Video taken by the same YOUTUBE account of fire damage inside the restricted zone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mppuqs7YF0

~~~~~~~~2018 November  Paradise fire Images below~~~~~~~~~~

LINKS ONLY DUE TO COPYRIGHT

Forest fire burned houses but not trees.
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/03/01/business/01Utility/01Utility-superJumbo-v2.jpg

Trees and telephone poles intact but fire melted all but steel frame of car
https://i.imgur.com/iPTPBzE.png

Piles of ashes on the cement foundations of houses remains, but the trees surrounding them are intact.

https://i.imgur.com/A1rtbD8.png

This might be a better example:
https://i.imgur.com/u5TYk87.png

A forest fire when only the buildings burn
https://i.imgur.com/arO8VVk.png

Google Images search results for paradise fire here:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&sca_esv=561276914&q=paradise+california+fire&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiUnO-lkoSBAxVklmoFHSurDk0Q0pQJegQIEBAB&biw=1920&bih=955&dpr=1#imgrc=PC1vVi_xoK_dJM

 

[ransomnote]

In the General/Chat forum, on a thread titled MORE EVIDENCE - 2 Miles from Lahaina Fire A Melted Car Surrounded by Gravel! D.E.W. or What? (IMAGES from video and video links), chuck allen wrote:

You don’t need much fuel. Follow the bouncing ball..

Electric line ignites grass fire, winds spread grass fire, 700 degree grass fire ignites car that burns at 1500 degrees, glass breaks and aluminum melts. Front street in Lahaina with hundreds of cars and buildings on fire simultaneously was probably burning hot enough to melt damn near anything within a hundred yards.

I’ve seen cars in flames with nary a grass or forest fire in sight. Let alone a DEW.

My Attorney Father-in Law taught me a lesson long ago, “Shit happens.”

It doesn't have to be a D.E.W. but this fire, and the pictures at the bottom of my post of the 2018 Paradise fire are not explained by standard 'car fire'.

Glass melted. The front windshield melted in the center of the car and in the video they film down a door sill where the window used to be, and you can (barely) see the sheen of melted glass sticking to one side of the door.

By your theory the upholstery heated the steel roof enough to melt/burn the aluminum roof rack so it crumbles to the touch? The engine compartment is hooded and enclosed by steal likely doesn't get enough oxygen to fuel a fire that hot and that long to leave just debris behind. But if it did, what reduced the tires to ashes? An engine fire burned the rear wheels? The interior or engine of the car is on fire, how does the tire bolted to the back of the outside of the car turn to dust, along with both rear wheels?

The fire was much hotter than 1500 degrees and burned consistently hot enough to melt all but the steel of the car. Not enough fuel, oxygen or heat.

[chuck allen]

You believe this was a D.E.W.?

[ransomnote]

Hello gentle FReeQs. :D

I have to leave for a bit so please pardon my manners as I repurpose a post I sent someone else. Leftovers...I know...but I got errands to run. *the cat just gave me the stink eye*

Just a quick note -using internet byte that says car fires burn at 1500. Not hot enough for glass to melt as it did. Here's that post from another thread. Please entertain the cat while I'm gone. :D

In the General/Chat forum, on a thread titled MORE EVIDENCE - 2 Miles from Lahaina Fire A Melted Car Surrounded by Gravel! D.E.W. or What? (IMAGES from video and video links), ransomnote wrote:

In the General/Chat forum, on a thread titled MORE EVIDENCE - 2 Miles from Lahaina Fire A Melted Car Surrounded by Gravel! D.E.W. or What? (IMAGES from video and video links), chuck allen wrote:

You don’t need much fuel. Follow the bouncing ball..

Electric line ignites grass fire, winds spread grass fire, 700 degree grass fire ignites car that burns at 1500 degrees, glass breaks and aluminum melts. Front street in Lahaina with hundreds of cars and buildings on fire simultaneously was probably burning hot enough to melt damn near anything within a hundred yards.

I’ve seen cars in flames with nary a grass or forest fire in sight. Let alone a DEW.

My Attorney Father-in Law taught me a lesson long ago, “Shit happens.”

It doesn't have to be a D.E.W. but this fire, and the pictures at the bottom of my post of the 2018 Paradise fire are not explained by standard 'car fire'.

Glass melted. The front windshield melted in the center of the car and in the video they film down a door sill where the window used to be, and you can (barely) see the sheen of melted glass sticking to one side of the door.

By your theory the upholstery heated the steel roof not enough and long enough to melt/burn the aluminum roof rack so it crumbles to the touch? The engine compartment is hooded and enclosed by steel likely doesn't get enough oxygen to fuel a fire that hot and that long to leave just debris behind (comment made by a dude in the video). But if it did, what reduced the tires to ashes? An engine fire burned the rear wheels? Burning upholstery in the cabin burned the tires? The interior or engine of the car is on fire, how does the tire bolted to the back of the outside of the car turn to dust, along with both rear wheels?

The fire was much hotter than 1500 degrees and burned consistently hot enough to melt all but the steel of the car. Not enough fuel, oxygen or heat.

[the_daug]

The wind was blowing and there is enough fuel to have caused the damage and add to it the aluminum was possibly an alloy with magnesium the fire would really get going hot.

The car companies used Magnesium to reduce weight for better gas millage.

[ransomnote]

Hello gentle FReeQs. :D

I have to leave for a bit so please pardon my manners as I repurpose a post I sent someone else. Leftovers...I know...but I got errands to run. *the cat just gave me the stink eye*

Just a quick note -using internet byte that says car fires burn at 1500. Not hot enough for glass to melt as it did. Here's that post from another thread. Please entertain the cat while I'm gone. :D

In the General/Chat forum, on a thread titled MORE EVIDENCE - 2 Miles from Lahaina Fire A Melted Car Surrounded by Gravel! D.E.W. or What? (IMAGES from video and video links), ransomnote wrote:

In the General/Chat forum, on a thread titled MORE EVIDENCE - 2 Miles from Lahaina Fire A Melted Car Surrounded by Gravel! D.E.W. or What? (IMAGES from video and video links), chuck allen wrote:

You don’t need much fuel. Follow the bouncing ball..

Electric line ignites grass fire, winds spread grass fire, 700 degree grass fire ignites car that burns at 1500 degrees, glass breaks and aluminum melts. Front street in Lahaina with hundreds of cars and buildings on fire simultaneously was probably burning hot enough to melt damn near anything within a hundred yards.

I’ve seen cars in flames with nary a grass or forest fire in sight. Let alone a DEW.

My Attorney Father-in Law taught me a lesson long ago, “Shit happens.”

It doesn't have to be a D.E.W. but this fire, and the pictures at the bottom of my post of the 2018 Paradise fire are not explained by standard 'car fire'.

Glass melted. The front windshield melted in the center of the car and in the video they film down a door sill where the window used to be, and you can (barely) see the sheen of melted glass sticking to one side of the door.

By your theory the upholstery heated the steel roof not enough and long enough to melt/burn the aluminum roof rack so it crumbles to the touch? The engine compartment is hooded and enclosed by steel likely doesn't get enough oxygen to fuel a fire that hot and that long to leave just debris behind (comment made by a dude in the video). But if it did, what reduced the tires to ashes? An engine fire burned the rear wheels? Burning upholstery in the cabin burned the tires? The interior or engine of the car is on fire, how does the tire bolted to the back of the outside of the car turn to dust, along with both rear wheels?

The fire was much hotter than 1500 degrees and burned consistently hot enough to melt all but the steel of the car. Not enough fuel, oxygen or heat.

[chuck allen]

“ By your theory”

Yes. Logic, not emotion.

[Garden Island]

I live in the state of Hawaii. I see plenty of abandoned vehicles in view of the road, especially in back road areas where tourists don’t venture and where homeless meth heads camp. Cars end up burnt by druggies for a variety of reasons, some intentionally and some accidentally. Meth heads and abandoned vehicles go together like apple pie and ice cream.

[nuconvert]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6384485/Californias-Camp-Fire-inferno-survivors-reveal-cars-shoes-fell-apart.html

[ransomnote]

That’s the paradise fire - weird they named it ‘Camp Fire’.
That fire was abnormal and that’s why I posted links to images of it at the bottom of my thread post.

[Valpal1]

In 1998 a grass fire ignited 7 million tires at a tire dump in Tracy, California. It was extinguished after 26 months.

So grass can and have ignited tires before and they tend to continue burning until deprived of oxygen.

[nuconvert]

I know. I posted it to show the photos of melted aluminum and cars burnt to a crisp

[nuconvert]

Same thing happened to cars burned in the Marshall fire in Colorado.

[chuck allen]

Do yourself a favor and google “Jeep on fire” and peruse the images. Some spectacular burning vehicles pics are there, I don’t think any of them started via grass fire. Yes some of those Jeep fire pics would have melted glass and aluminum. A dropped lit cigarette butt can start a raging 1500 degree car fire in minutes.

[Drago]

200,000+ vehicle fires per year in the USA...about 6% of those (7,000+) are caused by “outside/external sources of ignition” (i.e. wildfires, etc.). So “Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate” applies here...(Occam’s Razor). Apply the stats & common sense along with Post #67 on this thread.

https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/News-and-Research/Fire-statistics-and-reports/US-Fire-Problem/osvehiclefires.pdf

https://www.livescience.com/what-is-occams-razor

https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/occam.html

[Zuriel]

Tires burn very hot, hot enough to melt alloy wheels.

I couldn’t tell you how many burned vehicles I’ve seen on shoulders of interstate highways during my trucking career. Often the burning vehicle starts the grass next to the shoulder on fire.

A boss I had from 02 to 07 had a nice farm shop. One night his son’s stone cold 99 F150 simply caught fire and burned the shop down.

He said he awoke about 2am to his dog outside barking. At the moment he opened his eyes, he saw a flickering orange glow on tbe bedroom wall, jumped out of bed to see flames coming out of the roof the shop. Two semi tractors in the back portion had a lot of fuel in them. But by the time the fire dept got there they were ablaze too.

[grey_whiskers]

This is not true. The average temperature of a forest fire specifically is around 800°C with extremes of up to 1,200°C—far higher than the melting point of pure aluminium (approximately 660°C).

Except that this appeared to have been grassland, not forest.

[chuck allen]

From Dragos post #74 NFPA Research pg. 9

“Tires can be the cause of the fire, a fuel or both. Figure 11 shows that tires were the first item ignited in 30% of Large Truck fires and 12% of Bus fires.”

[chuck allen]

The car itself burns at 1500 degrees once ignited, which melts aluminum. Doesn’t matter what started it, grass or cigarette butt.

[Valpal1]

“The windshield melts at a temperature of 2200 degrees Fahrenheit”

Silica melts at that temp, but windshields are only 60 to 70% silica. Other materials are added to bring the melt point down to 1000F to reduce the energy costs in manufacturing. The plastic safety coating also contributes to the melting of windshields when it burns off in a fully involved car fire.

[Tellurian]

I don't see how a bumper sets the wheels on fire. Bad design for a car. Not enough fuel and most materials that could burn were reduced to dust. Tires don't explain this.

I suppose the front grill is more likely. The car had probably been driven up the hill on that bypass road escaping the fire, directly into the downslope whole gale winds, with wood embers (900°F - 1650°F) and ash flying all about. The ash and embers lodged into the grill, likely plastic, and continued producing plenty of heat due to the stoking by the wind. Hard plastics ignition temperature is 416°F to 580°F. The grill ignited and eventually the flames were driven to ignite either an oily surface of the engine or the hoses or wires, or the boots around the shocks, or all of these. The smoke or flames forced the driver to stop, who was fortunately safely away from the worst of the fire by then. Being Hawaii, someone else, seeing the car's occupants near the burning car, probably stopped and gave them a ride.

The flames spread to the tires. Tires burn; I wouldn't call it extreme heat that's necessary to start vulcanized rubber on fire. Flame temperatures, especially when wind blown, are easily in the 800°F - 900°F range to do this. Once the tires were on fire, they would generate all the heat necessary to decompose or melt the non-ferrous metal alloys of the wheels & engine.

Burning Tire Temp Chart (Celsius 1000°C = 1832°F)