Posted on 10/30/2022 8:30:39 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Earlier this month I wrote about organic chemistry professor Maitland Jones. Jones, who is now 84-years-old taught at Princeton until 2007 and then retired and became an adjunct professor at NYU. He’s considered one of the leading teachers in the field and his textbook on organic chem is now in its 5th edition. But his class is not easy. In fact, it had become known as a weed out class for students who wanted to go into medicine. But last spring a group of his students revolted.
…as the campus emerged from pandemic restrictions, 82 of his 350 students signed a petition against him.
Students said the high-stakes course — notorious for ending many a dream of medical school — was too hard, blaming Dr. Jones for their poor test scores…
“We are very concerned about our scores, and find that they are not an accurate reflection of the time and effort put into this class,” the petition said…
“We urge you to realize,” the petition said, “that a class with such a high percentage of withdrawals and low grades has failed to make students’ learning and well-being a priority and reflects poorly on the chemistry department as well as the institution as a whole.”
NYU agreed to let students retroactively withdraw from the class so a low grade wouldn’t be held against them. Dr. Jones was eventually fired but he filed a grievance over that decision and said he’d actually been reducing the difficulty of his exams. From his perspective, some of his students had completely forgotten how to study and the problem got noticeably worse during the pandemic.
Today the NY Times published a follow up piece in which they interviewed a bunch of professors and students about what had changed in higher ed in the last few years. The story uses Dr. Jones firing as a jumping off point for questions about whether students have become too entitled or professors have become too stuck in their ways. As I read it, there’s a pretty clear agreement among many of the respondents that the students have in fact become more demanding of professors and less of themselves. From a student…
I’m a sophomore at a private university. Unnecessary weed-out classes that usually aren’t even important to your major should be completely removed from curriculums or taught in a different way. Students who don’t have the means to support themselves academically should not be weeded out. Young people have a stronger voice now and the petition at N.Y.U. shined a light on this longstanding issue. — Charles Booth, 19, Hoboken, N.J.
No offense to Charles, but I don’t think organic chemistry is unimportant to your major if you’re hoping to be a medical doctor. As for students who don’t “have the means to support themselves academically” I’m not sure what this means. Is he saying students who fail tough classes? If so, what’s the point of having grades or tests at all? If everyone just gets a pass and no one is weeded out, couldn’t that result in some really unprepared college graduates who actually can’t do the kind of work their degree suggests they can? From a former professor:
I taught digital media management to postgraduates at a private university, and over the last few years students stopped wanting to be educated and became buyers of credentials. That evolution created sides in a conflict: students and the administrators who collect their tuition on one side, faculty and our professional obsessions on the other.
Ultimately, I could not accept the mismatch of priorities. I left academia because of the changes I perceived in students and the administration that pandered to them.
I think that sort of matches with the previous comment from Charlies, i.e. it doesn’t matter if students can support themselves academically what matters is that they get the degree they paid for regardless of how they perform. Another professor:
I have extensive experience teaching undergraduate, graduate and medical students in both seminar and large lecture settings at a private university. I used the Socratic method, attempting to gently lead the students through the process of problem solving. I explained at the beginning that it was meant as a dialogue, not a harassment. About 15 years ago, I started seeing undergraduate students become resistant to this challenge. Ten years ago this discomfort had filtered up to the graduate and medical students. Now, questioning students in front of their peers is more or less considered unacceptable. It makes them “uncomfortable.” I consider myself a flexible, supportive instructor, sensitive to the needs of my students. I do not believe in so-called weed-out courses. I believe in learning. But part of this process is becoming adept at problem solving under challenging conditions. — Barry Goldstein, 70, Westport, N.Y.
No one can be uncomfortable. The classroom has to be a safe space even from learning in real time. Finally, this one is interesting. It comes from a student and starts out as a criticism of some professors but ends with what I think was meant to be a further criticism of stodgy professors but it actually comes across as an embarrassing admission about the students.
I am an undergraduate at a private university widely regarded for having difficult professors and curriculums. I think many professors at research universities tend to focus less on their teaching and more on publishing. I also find that professors are often resistant to changing their teaching styles when something isn’t working because for many, it doesn’t seem to be a priority for them.
In a post-Covid academic climate many of my peers, including myself, are just not accustomed to the kind of effort that has been expected for decades in pre-med and other similar weed-out courses. — Sam Nichols, 20, Ithaca, N.Y.
Again, I think he was trying to say that in the post-Covid world the kids just shouldn’t be expected to meet the expectations of previous generations. But why not exactly? If not now, when will it be okay to demand a lot of effort from those students?
Read the whole thing for yourself.
College is big business, and one of the few that enable lazy people (teachers) to make a good salary. Course decisions are based upon that.
I was a Chem major taking organic chemistry back in the early Eighties after I got out of the USN.
We had 8 students in our class, which is good, but our professor was a POS.
She was a dedicated Democrat, married to a Democrat Supreme Court judge in our state (or so I was told-I can’t find his name, but that doesn’t mean much-she was the type to keep her own name). She vaguely resembled Ruth Bader Ginsberg, with none of the charm and a surfeit of malice.
She didn’t teach the course. She would have us read the textbook in class, then go up to the board and answer questions. While we were reading, she would balance her checkbook. She did a lot of checkbook balancing.
So, based on reading the book, she would compel you to answer questions, which due to the lack of instruction, few could answer correctly. She was rude, and humiliated and insulted people who were sent to the board.
We went en masse to the chair of the department who was competent and an engaged professor, nice guy, be he wasn’t going to address the issue, so we went to the Dean. He told us there was nothing he could do.
It made us pretty angry. We weren’t looking to just “get over”. We all wanted to learn, but she wasn’t interested in teaching. And learning a subject like that strictly from reading a text book and absorbing what you could from the abuse as you stood in front of the chalkboard was a poor substitute for an engaged teacher.
When we had our final, she left the class and didn’t come back except to collect the tests. We all cheated on that test. As soon as she left, we all looked at each other, and in unison, pulled out our text books and worked the problems together. It was the only test I ever cheated on, and I didn’t regret it one bit.
I had more trouble with Physical Chemistry, but the Chair of the department taught that one, and he was a good and compassionate teacher. He helped me learn enough to pass that course. He recognized I was struggling and offered to help me. That is what a professor should do.
I still have my Morrison and Boyd, 3rd edition, from when I took organic chemistry in 1974. Took a look at it just now, and can’t believe I ever once knew even a fraction of all that. I see that it cost all of $17.95 new then.
I had a calculus instructor that way. Kids would walk into class and see him and then would leave and rearrange their schedules. I stayed with him and learned a lot. He was tough but good at teaching.
Fifty years on, I still remember a couple of the quotes from that book.
Talking about enantiomers: "Everything, except of course a vampire, has a mirror image."
Talking about synthesis: "The manufacture of soap is one of the oldest of chemical syntheses. It is not nearly so old as the synthesis of alcohol, however. Man's desire for cleanliness is much newer than his desire for drunkeness."
The problem is that they want the prestige and pay of a medical degree but the education of a ditch digger. Idiocracy was prophecy.
The two local state universities basically allow anyone with the money to get in. As a result a very large percentage of them flunk out in the first semester or two. Also the two classes that have the most time slots are remedial math and remedial English. They aren’t prepared for college and should never have been admitted.
” I considered taking it to my shooting range once but decided against such. He became once an adversary and now an old friend.”
Some say ‘If it doesn’t kill you, it will make you stronger.’
I have heard enough of combatants from WWII, Guadalcanal, European, North African theaters, meet their former foes in friendly social settings and get along very well. It is a mark of maturity and growth to be able to do so.
In 10 years or so? We’ve seen it in the last two years.
The 7th edition is listed at $525.19 on Amazon, but cheaper versions are available (Kindle, paperback, used, etc.).
Organic Chemistry, 7th Edition Textbook Binding – January 1, 2010
I just remembered. When I took organic at the beginning of the first class, the professor sat on the edge of the stage and said, “They say organic chemistry is Hell, Well, think of me as your Dante.” I got a C in the class.
That is why she left the class.
Yeah, I looked around a little online this morning and saw that. I don’t know if it’s the actual bookstore price, though. Still, textbook prices are astounding today compared to when I was in school.
One of my brothers married a girl from a major textbook-publishing family. I’ve been giving her grief about gouging starving students for decades now.
They still have to get through everything else to have DR in front of their name
In her case, it wasn’t unanimous. There were 82 out of 350...in our case, it was 8 out of 8!
LOL, so THAT’S what happens in colleges these days!
You obviously paid attention in class. A for you.
Nursing school was tough, any score below 80% on any quiz, test, or practical could get you thrown out of the program. Best case you had a corrective interview with the Dept. Head.
Worst case you were advised to go to another major.
My corrective interview came on a drug quiz concerning pediatric patients. I did pass in 2011 and have been a Nurse as a second career . ( My first was Aerospace, then Medical manufacturing engineering). The kind of Nursing I do now, Pediatric Outpatient, and no matter how long I have a patient, I review the Meds,dosage, administration times, and any other prior notes every shift that I start, because the standard is 100% in the real world.
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