Posted on 03/03/2022 11:39:27 AM PST by JOHN ADAMS
So many people who are posting actively on Ukraine argue as follows: 1. We all hate George Soros, Justin Trudeau and Klaus Schwab. 2. All of those people and many others whom we also despise support Zelensky and the Ukraine and oppose Putin. 3. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. 4. Therefore we should not oppose Putin’s actions in Ukraine and 5. Anyone who does oppose Putin is a neo-con fool who wants to send other people’s sons into a pointless and bloody war in Eastern Europe to a. Distract from other evil scheme they are carrying out including b. Advance the great reset.
By this reasoning the US should not have fought WW II and should not have opposed Hitler because Hitler was opposed to Stalin and Stalin was an evil communist.
This represents an adolescent understanding of foreign policy which assumes that the US should choose its enemies and allies on the basis of the moral complexion of the people who oppose them.
That is childish.
Discuss
He was for Hitler, before he was against him.
Why are you linking to a game website?
I invoke Godwin’s law of internet discussions.
I didn’t mean to link to nine.com. I meant to answer the URL question in the posting page by typing none.com
But I have both fat thumbs and a poor ability to proofread so I didn’t see my mistake (or at least that mistake) until it was too late.
Hitler and Stalin were both wrong. Somehow Antifa is looked up to because they fought fascism. They are Communists just like Stalin.
Europe’s wars have been pushing borders back and forth for over a thousand years, and they never needed our help in doing it.
It was only 100 years ago that Woodrow Wilson stuck our nose in where it didn’t belong, and the American people have paid the price ever since.
While the USA was spending it’s treasure and blood protecting the Euros, the Euros were building wealth and at the same time complaining about us.
Time for them to step up and handle things themselves. America can and should sit this one out.
It is childish. If Soros said you should like your mom and beathing, all these easily manipulated Putin pom pom girls would hate their moms and hold their breath till they passed out.
Let’s get to the bottom line - We are broke and hopelessly in debt. Our very nation is collapsing. We don’t have the luxury of spending money we don’t have over two POS countries fighting it out halfway around the globe.
You know what is childish?
Positing lies as part of your theory about those whom you are trying to convince.
The following two points you mentioned in your “thesis” are lies:
4. Therefore we should not oppose Putin’s actions in Ukraine and
5. Anyone who does oppose Putin is a neo-con fool who wants to send other people’s sons into a pointless and bloody war in Eastern Europe to a. Distract from other evil scheme they are carrying out including
Just more of the hyperbolic nonsense that those who yes, have chosen to be manipulated by Propaganda supported by the likes of Clinton, Obama, Soros, the Democrat Press, Democrats, and Globalists choose to use.
Until you can be more honest in your deliberations, you will not be able to change the opinions of those who are skeptical about this whole Ukraine mess.
Not a matter of "wanting" as much as both sides thought the Pact would ultimately give them the upper hand over the other. Stalin thought that War in the West would weaken the armies so he could swoop in and get all of Europe. Hitler thought the British and French would reneg on their support for Poland, once they learned of the Pact, which would then allow Hitler to focus on Russia.
I agree with you and am embarrassed by some of the comments here on FR regarding the Russian war on Ukraine. There is absolutely no excuse, no valid reason for what Russia is doing.
Just do not drag America into this war.
I do not support Putin. That's easy. “Everybody” hates Putin. I do not want to join with Putin and help him conquer Ukraine. Not at all.
I also do not support Ukraine. As the OP points out, Ukraine has unsavory friends. I consider Ukraine to be a globalist stooge. I would prefer to keep my distance. Why do I have to side with anyone here? European wars are common and they are always sad and pointless.
Switzerland may not be neutral anymore, but I still am.
For that photo-op, the Russians intentionally gave Churchill a shorter chair.
Ukraine and Russia are both corrupt hellholes. Maybe if America minded it’s own business we wouldn’t have a problem over there right now.
I assert that your name calling means there is no discussion to be had. If you want to discuss then you don’t start off by demeaning people you disagree with. You’ve already made your opinion known and you’re obviously not going to be swayed from it, so why bother, except to stoke your ego.
Short summary: Hitler had already conquered most of Europe and it was basically only the UK and Russia left, and the fear was the UK was about to fall. Hitler suddenly shifted from invading the UK to invading Russia, so yup, we made a deal with Satan and supported Russia. And they killed a hell of a lot of Nazis.
BenLurkin I don’t agree with you but you make a perfectly reasonable argument for American isolationism that has a long pedigree. But your argument is not the argument I was asking people to talk about.
In my own opinion your argument is rooted in President Washington’s belief that we could safely sit things out in the security of our own country, separated by a barely crosssable ocean from Europe’s corruption and endless violence. I don’t think that was true in 1790 but I am highly confident it’s not true now. I think our choice now is between the US leading a world order or lunatics and evil people doing so in ways that pose a grave threat to us.
We held Afghanistan for several years with fewer annual casualties than a moderate weekend in Chicago. We thereby prevented it from being used as a fire base to attack the United States. I think that’s a sensible policy. It’s the reason the people who led us in WWII decided it was a good idea for the US to have bases in Germany and South Korea.
It may be bad and expensive. But the alternative is worse.
You and I, I suspect, could have a reasonable conversation about this without once asking what George’ Soros - whom I despise - thinks about anything.
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