Posted on 12/02/2020 9:55:08 PM PST by SteveH
all other alternatives to an emergency special election seem to end in some form of violence or permanent dislocation of one main party or the other.
a re-election would be fine but suffers from the flaw that it invites a repeat in the forseeable future simply by the precedent that it sets.
holding an emergency election between the two top second tier contestants is not ideal but there is no ideal alternative. this alternative might be the fairest among the hobbesian universe of unequally unfair choices that do not ultimately involve a government collapse.
if the two major parties agree, emergency legislation could be passed in time for a short campaign, a one day election, a foreshortened but otherwise normal electoral college process, and an inauguration by january 20.
trump and biden negotiate and agree for the benefit of the country to sit this one out and let their seconds battle peacefully for the presidency. it is not a re-co and so forms an generally unpalatable precedent for all future parties in all future elections. there will be less temptation to repeat this emergency election, and the temptation to set a vanilla repeat election which would lead to an unwise precedent is removed.
major parties don't have to agree on much except for the situation to be an emergency requiring extraordinary measures to recover from the emergency. if there is not enough time, then the inauguration and other deadlines could be moved forwards by a couple of months, by mutual agreement.
Yeah good luck with that one.
“if the two major parties agree...”
There’s the problem. There is no reason for the dems to agree.
Ok - fair enough - but my other critique of your proposal is your assumption that a Harris/Pence race would be any fairer than the Trump/Biden race.
I trust the Democrats would AGREE to it being fair, then double down on cheating, then laugh at us for being morons again.
Also, the people chose Trump. I like Pence but that’s not who the people chose -they chose Trump so the only fair solution is to either redo the Trump/Biden election fairly, or fight it in court and let the House select Trump.
Think about it - if you could get the Democrats to peacefully accept a truly fair Harris/Biden election - then why wouldn’t they peacefully accept a do-over of the Trump/Biden election?
The answer is that the Democrats are not going to accept a fair election in the interest of peace. Period. We are going to have to fight for it and if it gets violent, that’s the Democrats’ fault, not ours.
We have to fight and win this now, while we still have the 2nd amendment.
ya i realize harris is not eligible, yet here she is, vp-elect (at least according to wikipedia and the msm, lol)
> Ok - fair enough - but my other critique of your proposal is your assumption that a Harris/Pence race would be any fairer than the Trump/Biden race.
maybe so.
there is another thread here
BREAKING EXCLUSIVE: WE GOT IT! — Col. Waldron Confirms US Has a Copy of the Election Night Data ‘Traffic and Packets’ Sent Overseas to Frankfurt!
Gateway Pundit ^ | 01 DEC 2020 | Joe Hoft
Posted on 12/3/2020, 2:39:49 AM by Patriot_MP
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3911748/posts
that i true has a prospect of making all of these hypotheticals moot (due to military-style arrests and trials).
hopefully biden and harris would concede once the full extent of any alleged treasonous plot were revealed, unless they were among the conspirators, in which case they would be arrested. and have to serve their terms while in jail. (ok, no, just kidding about that last part, lol.)
My theory (not fully thought out):
1) The election was stolen not by Dominion machines, but by introducing tens of millions of mail-in ballots into the process, which don’t have any of the safeguards of in-person voting. This was justified by exploiting Covid19 fears, and then reinforced by deliberately removing whatever safeguards did exist - including any strict voter eligibility verification, and witnessing thereof.
2) The role the Dominion machines played was not the actual stealing, but a sort of “laundering” of the theft. By entering ballots into the machines, the paper ballot s no longer the official ballot - the official ballot becomes the scanned images, the tallies, the data. Just as with money laundering, the paper ballots are separated from their chain of custody, there is no longer an audit trail, or any forensic evidence of fraud.
The problem Team Trump has is the same problem investigators have with analyzing successfully laundered money: If they catch the bad guys with a suspicious amount of money - but it has been laundered - the evidence of fraud has been stripped from it.. it proves nothing.
I hope I’m wrong, but I think the machine software and data servers will prove nothing.
The only way Team Trump will win is to focus on the illegalities and unconstitutionalities surrounding the processing and validation of mail-in ballots.
The Dominion software and data servers may provide circumstantial evidence, and suspicious behavior - but other than that, they are a dead end.
The data was sent to servers all over the world for the same reason money is laundered by flowing it through all kinds of accounts and shell companies. The same reason malware is sent through a series of proxy servers... to strip it of its chain of custody... to interrupt the audit trail.. to eliminate forensic evidence.
If you personally want to hand America over to China for them to make slaves of us or, more likely for older patriots, kill us, then you need to be willing to personally be brutally killed or become a slave for the rest of your life, treated like you’re not even human, and witness to more horror than we can conceive of. Just so you know.........
You may look down your nose at a gentleman’s demeanor but i think you misunderstand the purpose of a gentlemen’s demeanor. A gentleman’s demeanor has an express purpose of avoiding violence wherever and whenever possible. Violence is a last resort.
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You don’t understand we have international collaborators conspiring to destroy us through a number of means. right now they are trying to steal the election. As that fails they will beg the U.N. to intervene so the UN will prop the door open for “peace keepers” which are coup forces. And those “peace keepers” put down civilians trying to fight for America’s freedom. Then more troops show up -and the UN never leaves.
But we wouldn’t last long if the UN ever got control, so there’s that...
China is trying to destroy us - asking them nicely if they would, in the spirit of fairness, abandon all current plots plans and infiltrators currently in play won’t work.
I would rather first shoot democraps who think it’s just fine and dandy to steal elections.
Media news outlet dems first, then on to the GOPe globalist back stabbing MFrs....big tech censors etc....
This is about our constitution the very stability of our freedom, the fact that our nation is NOT suppose to be a shiithole nation....
And, your idea is moronic ....perhaps you too should gain a massive beat down to get you back in line. Series, this is a crock....
There is probably only one thing that will turn this mess around and it is ugly.
Sorry, you can’t make omelets without breaking eggs. In this case, truck loadsof eggs.
> You ignore the overwhelming evidence available because it’s the only way you can pretend this is just a gentleman’s disagreement, the left is fair, and no one is trying to overthrow our elections.
> With such detachment from reality - there’s no point in bothering to respond to your fantasy scenarios.
Almost anything is preferable to war, and almost any war is preferable to civil war.
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You’re still ignoring the fact that China is actively conducting war against us and advising we decide whether to have a war or not. IT’S.ALREADY.IN.PROGRESS.
You don't understand the basic nature of war - they ignore empathy and kill us. That's how war works.
> ransomnote
Why are you employing the MSM/Left tactic of purposefully ignoring videos, witness testimony, collected evidence, analysis including support documents re Dominion software, expert testimony, etc. All that and you want to limit this discussion to missing envelopes?
I am not ignoring them. they attest to the uncertainty of the tabulation to a lesser or larger degree. collectively, to a degree that the true vote cannot be rationally argued due to lack of logs, procedures, spoilages, etc. Yes that was by design but no, the average democrats were victimized too. yes, a small cadre of them were dishonest but many (most likely a vast majority) were deceived and cheated also. they were cheated because someone tipped the scales in their favor. in a fair world, one which we must always strive to construct and maintain, tipping the scales cheats all sides— fundamentally immoral to any honest person, who if honest must reject any ill gotten gains.
So you're FR's Tokyo Rose? Still pretending portions of the ongoing coup are an issue of fairness - still trying to smother the natural desire among Americans to resist coup as they should.
Your creepy manipulative writing is like Ayman Zawahiri after 9/11 urging Americans, "Yes. Yes this is a matter for the courts". He didn't want Americans to even realize a foreign nation was attacking us and tried to diminish it to a police matter.
You won't succeed in convincing many that we just have to view China's ongoing coup attempt as a social disagreement best settled by deference.
NO COMPROMISE. NO DEFERENCE. WE ARE UNDER ATTACK.
Our enemies will kill and enslave us.
yes, the evidence points to cheating. but logically many of the tracks are covered. logs were not kept or deleted. without logs, full data recovery is not possible. without full data recovery, we simply won’t be able to know with absolute certainty the final count or in many cases the final winner. we could in some cases extrapolate from statistics. however, elections are not really intended from the beginning to be determined statistically. they are designed to be determined absolutely from the initial vote through the process to the final absolute tallies. we need what we don’t have, and which we can never get, although we were supposed to get. period. shouting louder does not change the math which is in the absolute rendered inconclusive.
You are lying to convince readers that there is something vague about the obvious epic levels of election theft by repeatedly, purposefully ignoring the ample mountain of evidence and picking away at the margins. WHY?
> Ransomnote
Only China and the MSM really are invested in falsely portraying Biden the winner and that’s because the MSM is falsely claiming the right to ‘call’ the winner. 3/4 of voters did not vote for Biden.
see above. adversarial third parties are hovering, yes. but we need to resolve this peacefully if possible with each other and keep the adversarial third parties away.
~~~~~~~~
See above. WE.ARE.AT.WAR.
I personally don’t know what trump will do but my best guess as i mentioned in a previous response is that he will do whatever he can to try to find a peaceful solution, even at sacrifice to his own person. Many great politicians of the past have sought peaceful solutions in a similar manner and made similar great personal sacrifices for the greater good.
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Know this. President Trump will never concede because it means China would control and destroy America. You don't have to believe me - you can just listen to President Trump. He is filling in the details I have been relaying to you in public addresses lately.
He might have bragged once. Some initially claimed he was suffering from dementia. I usually give someone a break unless they are repeat offenders. So it’s disputed as to whether biden misspoke or confessed from my POV. Further evidence may be brought to bear that might sway me. people do occasionally misspeak. And it can happen at the worst times.
And that's why pencils have erasers? He didn't forget what town he was campaigning in. He bragged about election theft just like he bragged about extorting the Ukraine. Our enemies are openly talking about their tactics to overthrow countries (lately, ours) and you want to pretend he "misspoke".
> This is war and you don’t know it or are choosing not to admit it. You then suggest we submit to those who want to kill us, but do so in the name of ‘fair play’.
Those are serious allegations against biden. If true he deserves his day in court. We still have the principle of innocence until proven guilty, as uncomfortable as this may lead us to be under trying circumstances such as these. I might agree or not with you, but my beliefs do not matter since it has not yet been adjudicated in a court of law.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There it is again - you are employing a Deep State tactic to undermine America's will to defend herself while under attack. WE don't have to wait for Biden's day in court before we resist being overthrown and killed.
> There’s no pointing my responding to the rest of your bizarre post.
Sorry you feel that way.
No you aren't. And besides, you've changed my mind. If you're going to try to rot the will to survive from people reading FR, I have to focus more on the trash you write.
When you asked me to let it go - rather than another of your belligerent responses - I did. The post you seem to be responding to now was posted before I saw your request.
Now, after you threatened to knock out my teeth and made other disparaging comments that had nothing to do with the content you posted that I criticized, I responded in kind.
You couldn’t even stop yourself from making threats in your complaint to the Admin Moderator: “i am very accustomed to handling myself well around bullies as well as people who deliver threats and insults when they feel safe from harm. hint— i am still standing and still thriving. you can use your imagination as to what happened to the others.” It takes certain kind of mentality to criticize others for making threats and insults while they are “safe from harm” while making threats and insults while you are “safe from harm”.
When you posted your idea, aside from it being entirely unconstitutional, I called you a fool for thinking it was viable and a coward for surrendering. I’m pretty sure those are legitimate, on-topic criticisms relevant to the topic under discussion, even if you don’t like them. You are the one that started with the teeth thing.
Perhaps I should have said that your IDEAS were foolish and cowardly in stead of calling you a fool and a coward, but to me that’s just parsing. It’s good to know that if anyone ever calls me a name I don’t like I can just go crying to the Admin Moderator. Oh, wait, I guess that means I should report all the people that have criticized my ideas, called me a liar when I refuted their ideas, etc. And so should everybody else. That seems like a lot of work for the Admin Moderator to sift through.
Tempers are hot in all this mess, people are short with their words. If you are so fragile that you can’t handle having your ideas criticized, perhaps you should just go back to bed. In any case, to paraphrase *someone*, stay out of my foxhole.
By the way, you are the bully.
Since you have asked me to not post to you, I’ll just say this: if you post something I disagree with (or, for that matter, agree with) I may respond. You do not get to dictate who speaks on a public forum. That’s just another form of bullying, however politely phrased (after the threats). I won’t shut up because you claim to be hurt by my words. That’s how we got into this mess.
Now, it’s up to you to “go in peace”.
Elites buy their degrees and she's known for sleeping her way to the top. She didn't receive a single delegate when she ran before.
i just am concerned about the casualness with which we shut out the possibility of reasonable negotiation. once we opt for shutting off negotiation we are in effect opting for civil war.
We are opting for war against enemies foreign and domestic because they gave us no choice. Dominion voting systems' parent company is 75% owned by China. Stop trying to portray this as a 'gentlemen's disagreement'.
war knows no boundaries. once started it cannot easily be stopped except by more war, war of complete annihilation.
War kept us from speaking German and Japanese in the past. It still has that Zing. Notice the wars were won and peace resumed.
it (war) does not stop at the city limits. it does not stop at the grocery store or at the soccer field. it does not spare our friends, relatives, offspring, parents or grandparents. it does not stop at our bank or hospital.
Our enemies would not stop at the city limits, the grocery store, or at the soccer field. They would kill us, our friends, relatives, offspring, parents or grandparents. Our enemies would raze essential services like hospitals and banks and enslave/kill us if we refuse to defend ourselves. The few American survivors would wish for death.
war does not stop at our property. it is over us in the sky, and under us in the ground. it is in the air we breathe and the water we drink. it deprives us of food fuel medicine and perhaps anything else we need for living. if we need justice, police, help of any sort, forget it. it does not stop for summer heat or winter cold or rain. it does not stop when we dial 911. it does not stop at our kitchen or living room. it does not stop to consult a rule book. it will shame us, humiliate us, make us do abominable things that we will forever keep secret.
Keep talking, Tokyo Rose. Keep actively trying to portray death and slavery as being worse than actually defending ourselves and defeating those who would kill us, as we have in the past.
war does not stop until we are totally victorious or totally destroyed. and after that those of us who survive have to learn to live again, sometimes as the vanquished under our conquerors... who rewrite history to exclude us as anything but evil. after our physical wounds are healed, those of us who survive, we will carry war with us in our memories for the remainder of our lives. and we will tell our offspring that war is hell, and always the last resort.
WWII didn't end well for Germany/Japan. Victory bought us years of peace, as destroying one's enemies is designed to do. War, in fact, works. That's why you want us to fear it more than death and slavery. Your attempts to erode Ameca's will to resist pretend that hardships will be worse for us than for our enemies and that our enemies will treat us and all future generations better if we just become their slaves or are killed outright.
i’m not saying war is totally avoidable but that we should all be prepared for the worst if we avoid every negotiation (or do not seek inventive ideas to avoid war).
i hope everyone who advocate stopping all negotiations are fully prepared for all out civil war— as in months ago, and not just extra toilet paper and extra bandaids.
Is that how long our enemies think it will take? You need to tell them it won't take us that long and we will never concede.
if what i write sounds odd, then please don’t just take my word for it but study history! especially 1860 and 1861 through the first few weeks of our own civil war.
What you write sound like it's calculated to erode the will to fight those who attack us to try to take our freedom and our country.
If anyone wants to study history, study the Holocaust. Once every last Jew was exterminated, they would use those ovens and gas chambers for anyone who disagreed with them. They don't have the assets to rule over so many Americans - they would cull about 90%. That's the plan of the New World Order - reduce the population to "useful"" people and then rule over it like China brutally rules over it's slaves.
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