Why?
They've got CTR stuff!
Although I guess some enterprising MORMON could decide to scale down THIS an make jewelry out of it...
Posted on 09/22/2019 4:04:02 PM PDT by robowombat
Affixing blame for the Mountain Meadows Massacre SEPTEMBER 21, 2019 BY DAN PETERSON
This is not a photo of the Mountain Meadows Massacre. We have none. So I went for a cheerier note. This is a photo (by James Jordan) of director Mark Goodman working just a few days ago with extras in Old Sturbridge Village, Massachusetts, for the “Witnesses” film project.
I note that I’m being accused by a small handful of people of blaming the Mountain Meadows Massacre on “anti-Mormons.”
First, two preliminary observations:
1) When I write anything for the public, at least some people will misread it in the most negative way that they possibly can.
2) The Mountain Meadows Massacre is, for quite manifest reasons, a controversial topic. And, accordingly, it’s one that some people are strongly inclined to exploit for ideological ends.
Of course, I don’t blame the Massacre on “anti-Mormons.” I blame it on the people who did it.
But the perpetrators interest me very particularly because, overwhelmingly, they do not seem to have been conventionally bad people – thugs, murderers, and the like – either before September 1857 or, for the most part, thereafter.
So the question that puzzles me (in this case as in more than a few others) is, What makes ordinary, decent people commit so extraordinarily horrific a crime?
Reading the Oxford book Massacre at Mountain Meadows, by Ron Walker and Rick Turley and Glen Leonard, when it first came out many years ago, I felt as if I were seeing a Greek tragedy unfold. There was a certain inexorable logic to what ultimately happened – a horrible logic, obviously, but one in which it made a certain degree of sense, after one bad step had been taken, to take the next one. I found myself wanting to scream “No! Stop!” while knowing what the outcome was inevitably going to be.
To me, if we see the people who committed the Mountain Meadows Massacre as utterly unlike ourselves, we’re not only falsifying history (and not merely in the sense that they, like me and many of my readers, claimed membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) but refusing to see a lesson (or, more aptly, lessons) in what happened. If they were something of a different species, their cautionary tale can have little if anything to teach us.
In order to understand what they did, we need to understand what factors acted upon them. And, beyond any reasonable dispute, one of the most important of those factors was a prior history of persecution and forced migration.
That doesn’t mean that the Missouri mobs bear legal and moral responsibility for the Mountain Meadows Massacre any more than an abusive father is responsible for the violent acts committed much later by a criminal son. But neither are the two unrelated. Human evils ramify. They do damage, among other things to human psyches.
The Mountain Meadows Massacre certainly isn’t the Restoration’s finest hour. It’s anything but faith-promoting. But it shouldn’t be exploited as a weapon against the Church or against religious belief, either. It’s too complex to be reducible to a self-serving slogan on a partisan bumper sticker.
Again I should add, I’ve seen worse as far as takeover is concerned.
Agree completely.
(Though that ‘many’ leaves a LOT of wiggle room.)
My comment was only in reference to the men you quoted not an attempt at wiggling.
I do need to address one other issue. I was going to add a caution in my original post about being careful about putting words unspoken in others mouths. I though better of it in order to give benefit of doubt.
Your quote: ( Remember fellow Christians: the Mormon’s criticize US because they’ve been taught that they CAN’T criticize ANY of their leaders; so they HAVE to vent somehow! )
Can’t is not found in that quote. The quote is “It is wrong to criticize...” I don’t see that as a prohibition. We are cautioned that it can be a poison dangerous to our faith if carried to extreme. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about personal agency. We are commanded by the Gospel of Christ, but no one is standing over us other than our conscience or the Holy Spirit to guide. You have concentrated on the words of the dead members of the Church of Jesus Christ which is why I suggested you might try with the living members, and I applaud your effort in that regard.
You did manage to paint with a broad brush accusing Mormon’s in general of criticizing Christian’s while divorcing said Mormon’s from the Christian family. I’ll accept some Mormon’s are critical, but certainly not all and it is strictly you opinion on whether We belong to the Christian family or not. I would say any LDS members on FR are already sufficiently warned by their opponents if they haven’t already left this site because of the constant harangue by so called Christian’s. Frankly, I don’t think you have helped JR maintain FreeRepublic, by driving away those who agree in principle with FR but rightly refuse to put up with the crap you folks are so good at delivering. Just my maybe not so humble opinion.
I tried my best to keep it civil but didn’t want to completely whitewash my comments. Now that I have spent this time I still haven’t forgotten the polygamy repeal. Later I guess. Maybe I should just point out God’s repeal of the Garden of Eden, and then mankind sorta got repealed because of corruption around the time of the flood. Noah and family started the recovery. The Law of Moses was repealed by Christ. The Jews themselves went from chosen to not so chosen, repeal of the present status of this planet is also due sometime in the future. IOW repeals are not that unusual. Stoning, and an eye for an eye would not be appreciated in today’s society but were certainly a part of early Christianity. I’m sure there are more.
So true; and I am darned proud of it; too!
Can’t disagree with that!
Oh?
Why?
Why should the living bring a different message than the dead?
When did GOD bring this new message?
Where is it recorded?
You've done a good job.
I know it's hard trying to reconcile the past with the present; when there is so little data to derive stuff from.
Temple Recommend Questions: 1857
1. Have you committed murder by shedding innocent blood, or consenting thereto?
2. Have you betrayed your brethren or sisters in anything?
3. Have you committed adultery, by having any connection with a woman that was not your wife, or a man that was not your husband?
4. Have you taken and made use of property not your own, without the consent of the owner?
5. Have you cut hay where you had no right to, or turned your animals into another person’s grain or field, without his knowledge and consent?
6. Have you lied about or maliciously misrepresented any person or thing?
7. Have you borrowed anything that you have not returned, or paid for?
8. Have you borne false witness against your neighbor?
9. Have you taken the name of Deity in vain?
10. Have you coveted anything not your own?
11. Have you been intoxicated with strong drink?
12. Have you found lost property and not returned it to the owner, or used all diligence to do so?
13. Have you branded an animal that you did not know to be your own?
14. Have you taken another’s horse or mule from the range and rode it, without the owner's consent?
15. Have you fulfilled your promises in paying your debts, or run into debt without prospect of paying?
16. Have you taken water to irrigate with, when it belonged to another person at the time you used it?
17. Do you pay your tithing promptly?
18. Do you teach her family the gospel of salvation?
19. Do you speak against your brethren, or against any principle taught in the Bible, Book of Mormon, book of Doctrine and Covenants, revelations given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and the Presidency of the Church as now organized?
20. Do you pray in your family night and morning and attend to secret prayer?
21. Do you wash your body and have your family do so, as often as health and cleanliness require and circumstances will permit?
22. Do you labor six days and rest, or go to the house of worship, on the seventh?
23. Do you preside over your household as a servant of God, and is your family subject to you?
24. Have you labored diligently and earned faithfully the wages paid you by your employers?
25. Do you oppress the hireling in his wages?
26. Have you taken up and converted any stray animal to your own use, or in any manner appropriated one to your benefit, without accounting therefore to the proper authorities?
I know what a ‘genius’ is, but I am uncertain what a ‘Genious’ is. Are you a ‘Genious’? Could you explain this new word?
Both ‘islam’ and ‘mormonism’ ARE cults! One is the cult of a male who committed fraud, conspired to murder others, committed adultery, married an underage female, claimed to be the ‘last prophet from God’, and claimed he hot all thos information from a most high angel. The other is the cult of mohamed hence, mohamedanism. No greater a man than Sir Winston Churchill referred to that religion as ‘mohammedanism’. I defer to his judgement.
As far as my words, I’ll leave the judgement up to Jesus, thank you very much.
I'd hate to call you a liar; so I won't; but the FACTS of this statement are plainly; at least; incorrect.
Many 'Mormons" were NOT run from Missouri. The fearful ones who CHOOSE to follow a false prophet to their deaths on the trek west to Utah, are the ones who RAN.
(A 'true' prophet would have at least WARNED them of the dangers of leaving ).
The ones who DID NOT LEAVE, became the owners of all of the land and possessions left behind.
Stop off in NAVUOO some day and see the history.
Beats the SHIZ outta me!!
I seem to remember that Joseph Smith claimed that GOD wanted him to 'correct' the errors in the KJV of the bible.
And; according to well documented LDS source; Joseph did that very thing.
Now; if GOD wanted the eroors eliminated; why hasn't a Living Prophet® since Smith been commanded by GOD to actually call the Inspireved Version 'scripture' and get in published and replace the error prone (we're told) KJV in the QUAD??
GOD change his mind yet again??
BDS: Buchanan Derangement Syndrome
Why?
They've got CTR stuff!
Although I guess some enterprising MORMON could decide to scale down THIS an make jewelry out of it...
A paper with numbers and letters all modern.
Oh and there is no such language as Reformed Egyptian.
....and there isn’t such a thing as mohamedanism, Genious .... its called ‘Islam’
If you call yourself a member of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints ... then please act like one.
....and there IS such a thing as SPELLCHECK -->; Genious .... try using it.
Oh, BTW; thanks for showing what Mormon Apologists think about their quarry.
I hear that now SLC wants to place Hill Cumorah somewhere in Central America.
Is that true??
https://www.funforlesstours.com/category/book-of-mormon-cruises-tours/
Cultural appropriation??
Can a Temple Worthy® Mormon even SAY the word 'coffee'???
If you want your claims to be accepted; then you'd better start posting some FACTS from what you 'reference'!
Frankly I have a copy of the Brigham Youngs discoursse ....
I guess that 'turn the other cheek' thing in your QUAD was part of the bad translating hinted about in the Mormon CREED.
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