Did the Battle of Jutland Really Matter?

National Interest ^ | May 20, 2016 | Robert Farley

[C19fan]

A century ago, the two greatest fleets of the industrial age fought an inconclusive battle in the North Sea. The British Grand Fleet and the German High Seas Fleet fielded a total of fifty-eight dreadnought battleships and battle cruisers, ships over the twice the size of most modern surface combatants. Including smaller ships, the battle included 250 vessels in total.

[C19fan]

The decision by the Germans to build a blue water navy could be considered one of the greatest strategic blunders in modern history. The move spooked the British which drew them closer to France. The existence of a blue navy with potential access to the Channel Ports probably played a major role in the British decision to declare war after Germany invaded neutral Belgium. The Brits did not care when Prussia and company spanked Napoleon III because they had no navy.

[Vaquero]

Wow. It’ll be 100 years in a couple of days

[Robert A Cook PE]

It did matter strategically - because the Germans never left port effective again.
It did matter strategically, because the BLOCKADE of England failed - their submarines were not effective enough to stop trade, while the British-American-French blockade killed Germany. Stopped their army through attrition and lack of support and lack of an economy to support it.

But that same blockade and the even more hated Versailles Treaty after the war created Hitler’s dominance that led to WWII.

[Terry L Smith]

The Battle of Jutland did prove that both navies were still employing naval tactics devised in the days of wood and sail.

‘Ships of the line’, in the days when ‘cannonade broadsides’ were the strength, sailing in lines with ships with movable turrets with guns that could reach out in miles, instead of yards, (20,000 yards equals 3.33 nautical miles.).

Was it important, in the Monday morning evaluation of The Great War? Yes. Why? It laid the foundation of Hitler’s determination to develop the U-boat as the backbone of the German navy, with only a few ‘mega-battleship’ designs, to mess-up the chessboard a little bit.

[SkyDancer]

The battle appeared to be a draw. However, Germany never ventured out to see again with their battle groups. Only submarines. (Barbara Tuchman - Guns Of August)

[BwanaNdege]

“dreadnought battleships and battle cruisers, ships over the twice the size of most modern surface combatants”

I don’t think so.

*****************************************

Class and type: Indefatigable-class battlecruiser
Displacement:

18,500 long tons (18,800 t)
22,130 long tons (22,485 t) at deep load

Length: 590 ft (179.8 m)
Beam: 80 ft (24.4 m)
Draught: 29 ft 9 in (9.07 m) (deep load)

********************************************************

Class and type: Arleigh Burke-class destroyer
Displacement:

Light: approx. 6,800 long tons (6,900 t)
Full: approx. 8,900 long tons (9,000 t)

Length: 505 ft (154 m)
Beam: 66 ft (20 m)
Draft: 31 ft (9.4 m)

********************************************
Type: San Antonio-class Amphibious transport dock
Displacement: 25,300 t (full)
Length: 684 ft (208 m)
Beam: 105 ft (32 m)
Draft: 23 ft (7.0 m), full load

[PAR35]

Germany needed a blue water navy for defensive purposes. They needed to 1) defend their colonies, and 2) defend their trade routes. Only the third reason for having a navy could be met by the u-boats - disrupting enemy trade routes.

Without an effective blue water navy, the Germans were unable to defend their colonies nor to maintain their trade routes.

The Germans were able to launch a series of coastal raids in Europe, but were unable to maintain their colonies nor trade routes.

[elcid1970]

Ironic how after the Armistice the Germans were ordered to surrender their High Seas ships to the British, but then scuttled them all in Scapa Flow in a final act of defiance.

Took Britain twenty years to clean out the wreckage.

[PAR35]

First, by no stretch of the imagination could a San Antonio LPD be called a surface combatant. It’s got a 30 mm (1.2 inch) main gun and some air defense missiles.

And second, as your numbers show, an Arleigh Burke destroyer (which probably ought to be classed as a light cruiser) has less than half the displacement of a dreadnaught - mainly due to lack of armor and heavy guns.

[LS]

It was a bad move but the politics of Britain joining the war had everything to do with Belgium and nothing to do with the German Navy.

Yes, Jutland mattered because techically it was a German victory but the poor coordination between subs and the High Seas Fleet robbed Germany of a once-in-a-lifetime chance to totally cripple the Royal Bavy and pushed Germany into unrestricted submarine warfare.

[artichokegrower]

The Battle of Jutland in 24 minutes.

http://www.heritagedaily.com/2016/04/the-battle-of-jutland-animation/110697

[Southside_Chicago_Republican]

Bookmark

[Tallguy]

“The Battle of Jutland did prove that both navies were still employing naval tactics devised in the days of wood and sail.”

Mostly true. But had the German Navy not executed a mass individual ship battle turn — a major violation of Line Ahead formations — the Royal Navy would have succeeded in “Crossing the Tee” and the lead elements of the High Seas Fleet would have been destroyed decissively. Instead the Germans gave the British Battle cruises a mauling and slipped the trap.

[Tallguy]

The Germans could have constructed a different type of navy for maintaining communications with their colonies. Emphasis on the Light-Cruiser type would have done that job efficiently without frightening the Brits.

[MUDDOG]

Germany entering into a naval arms race with Britain, by leading to WW1, was disastrous for western civilization.

Alfred Mahan’s 1890 book “The Influence of Sea Power on History” had a huge influence on the Kaiser’s and Germany’s decision to do so.

It’s one of those history-altering books.

[Tallguy]

Submarines in both World Wars had little chance to act in concert with a surface fleet once a major battle was joined. They could serve operationally as pickets, and sink damaged enemy vessels. But their slow submerged speeds, lack of sensors beyond the Mark One eyeball operating thru a periscoe, and primitive contact torpedoes all limited their battle potential.

Conventional subs were better suited for commerce raiding.

[Fiji Hill]

Thanks for the Memory

Thanks for the memory
In every German's mind,
When you broke the ties that bind
And dictated a pact called
the Treaty of Versailles.

How rotten that was.

Thanks for the memory
Of British aims divine,
French Negroes on the Rhine,
Your food blockade and misery
All over the German Reich.

What an injustice that was.

Many is the time that you feasted,
And many is the time that we fasted.
For you, it was swell while it lasted.
You did have fun, but harm was done.

Well, thanks for the memory
It gives us strength to fight
For freedom and for right
It might give you a headache, England,
That the Germans know how to fight
And hurt you so much.

--Karl "Charlie" Schwedler, c. 1941

[AU72]

Ironic how after the Armistice the Germans were ordered to surrender their High Seas ships to the British, but then scuttled them all in Scapa Flow in a final act of defiance.

My wife's grandfather witnessed the grand scuttle just out of Annapolis. In WWII he was one of the chief architects of amphibious landings, commanding transport squadrons across the Pacific and was the first flag vessel into Nagasaki taking the city's surrender in his wardroom.

[blueunicorn6]

The Jutland Battle has important ramifications for our present political contest.

The Germans had poor communications security for most of the battle.

You know, communications security. The stuff that Hillary Clinton didn’t care about.

If the British hadn’t been able to see the German communications, the battle would have been even worse for the British.

People’s lives depend on communications security and Hillary Clinton gave ours away.

[Fiji Hill]

Ironic how after the Armistice the Germans were ordered to surrender their High Seas ships to the British, but then scuttled them all in Scapa Flow in a final act of defiance.

Took Britain twenty years to clean out the wreckage.

Some of the wreckage is still there--and is a source of iron free from radioactive contaminants that is in demand in some sectors of the high tech industry.