Posted on 09/25/2012 10:45:44 AM PDT by djf
In Monday's game between the Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks, Seattle faced a 4th-and-10 from the Green Bay 24 with eight seconds remaining in the game.
Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson threw a pass into the end zone. Several players, including Seattle wide receiver Golden Tate and Green Bay safety M.D. Jennings, jumped into the air in an attempt to catch the ball.
While the ball is in the air, Tate can be seen shoving Green Bay cornerback Sam Shields to the ground. This should have been a penalty for offensive pass interference, which would have ended the game. It was not called and is not reviewable in instant replay.
When the players hit the ground in the end zone, the officials determined that both Tate and Jennings had possession of the ball. Under the rule for simultaneous catch, the ball belongs to Tate, the offensive player. The result of the play was a touchdown.
Replay Official Howard Slavin stopped the game for an instant replay review. The aspects of the play that were reviewable included if the ball hit the ground and who had possession of the ball. In the end zone, a ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable. That is not the case in the field of play, only in the end zone.
Referee Wayne Elliott determined that no indisputable visual evidence existed to overturn the call on the field, and as a result, the on-field ruling of touchdown stood. The NFL Officiating Department reviewed the video today and supports the decision not to overturn the on-field ruling following the instant replay review.
The result of the game is final.
Applicable rules to the play are as follows:
A player (or players) jumping in the air has not legally gained possession of the ball until he satisfies the elements of a catch listed here.
Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3 of the NFL Rule Book defines a catch:
A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:
(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and
(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and
(c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).
When a player (or players) is going to the ground in the attempt to catch a pass, Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 states:
Player Going to the Ground. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.
Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 5 states:
Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.
Well, you must be a Packers fan.
99% of the time, a ball batted down will be incomplete ... yes, occasionally it will end up being caught, but the odds are strong that it will fall incomplete.
100% of the time a simultaneous catch goes to the offense. It has to be clear and incontrovertable that the ball was intercepted ... which historically has meant that no part of the offensive players hands are touching the ball.
You must be a democrat sore loser, because you seem to want to change the rules because you lost the game. Just like in politics, bad cases make bad case law. Changing the rules so the Packers would have an interception is what would have been a real travesty. The ruling on the field was correct by the standards of football since the forward pass was invented.
What the NFL sees is whatever it wants to see to cover it's @$$. You are seeing what one of the replacement refs saw (one was calling it the other way). The call was bad, there were many, many bad calls both ways in this game, this one just happend to be at the end and gets the spotlight...
Watching the video on ESPN looks like this pic is AFTER they came down. If your scenario was accurate the NFL would have confirmed the call. They did not.
Check the slo-mo clip in Post 56. Watch Tate's right hand/arm. Watch *only* Tate's right hand/arm. As the players are falling to the ground, you will see Tate's right hand/arm swing around, and then look like it's reaching into Jenning's face-mask.
I’m a Hawk fan, so I do have a vested interest in the outcome of the game, but reasonable minds should be able to see this fact from the video I posted. Both players simultaneously go up for the ball and have both hands wrapped around it when they hit the ground, only Tate hits the ground first, without a doubt, and as long as he doesn’t let go of it after that, it can be considered a good catch.
“As the players are falling to the ground, you will see Tate’s right hand/arm swing around, and then look like it’s reaching into Jenning’s face-mask. “
I see Tate’s arm swinging around and securing the ball, not reaching in to the defender’s face mask.
The whole time Tate's right arm is swinging around, attempting to get hold of the ball, Jennings has already secured the ball with *both* hands.
Hit the NFL in the pocketbook.
I cancelled my account to NFLShop.com and informed them I am done with this charade of an NFL season and will no longer purchase any more of their products and will be encouraging others to do the same.
Here is the link where you can leave your comments:
“The whole time Tate’s right arm is swinging around, attempting to get hold of the ball, Jennings has already secured the ball with *both* hands. “
And that doesn’t mean jack until both of his feet touch the ground. I portend that by that time, Tate had bought his right arm in, secured the ball, and had both feet and maybe his rear end hit the ground.
Why is everyone saying the NFL didn’t confirm the call. Doesn’t this quote from the article count as confirmation?
“Referee Wayne Elliott determined that no indisputable visual evidence existed to overturn the call on the field, and as a result, the on-field ruling of touchdown stood. The NFL Officiating Department reviewed the video today and supports the decision not to overturn the on-field ruling following the instant replay review.”
“I’d like to think it all comes out in the wash. Thank you to the Green Bay fans who left our stadium peacefully and didn’t try to burn down Pioneer Square.” ....
Packer fans a different that other football fans by far and away. Football is just a game and win or lose, we are still Packer fans and know there will be another game. We will not lower ourselves out of frustration. We also know that football provides NOTHING to our gross national product. It is entertainment and nothing more. Indeed, indirectly there might be items produced by football players themselves provide ONLY entertainment. Its a game, get over it.
Actually in this feet don’t matter. The rule is about control (hands) not possession (feet). Jennings had two hands on the ball (control) when Tate had no hands on the ball, Tate eventually got hands on the ball, but Jennings was first and the rule directly states if one player has control before another player gets joint control the joint control doesn’t matter, possession goes to the first player with control.
Having two feet down with control of the ball absolutely does matter.
Not for this section of rule. This section is ENTIRELY about control, then once you’ve used the rule to decide who has control you look at the feet to decide where they had control. But for the joint possession issue feet don’t matter.
Here’s the rule:
The player who first controls and continues to maintain control of a pass will be awarded the ball even though his opponent later establishes joint control of the ball.
http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/forwardpass
Notice no feet. Just control. Jennings established control and maintained control while Tate established joint control. It happened just like the rule is written, Jennings had control. From there you look at his feet, if they hit inbounds INT and touch back, if not out of bounds, which of course end of the game that doesn’t matter. But that’s when feet become an issue.
After ain’t when.
You wont find it in any rule book. Possession doesn’t begin till you hit the ground.
Just like your screen name of Rain Man your logic and reasoning are so far off the mark I doubt You could locate the space needle if it was in your front yard.
97% of those polled have agreed it was the WRONG call.
But keep arguing your point and then we'll know for sure you must be a LOONEY LIBERAL.
It is in the rule book, I just quoted it to you, and the question isn’t possession, it’s control. To have possession you have to have control, with feet inbounds, but the rule in question only discusses control, not possession. Control doesn’t involve the feet.
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