'Extraordinary' genetic make-up of north-east Wales men

BBC ^ | 19 July 2011 | BBC

[Palter]

Experts are asking people from north-east Wales to provide a DNA sample to discover why those from the area carry rare genetic make-up.

So far, 500 people have taken part in the study which shows 30% of men carry an unusual type of Y chromosome, compared to 1% of men elsewhere the UK.

Common in Mediterranean men, it was initially thought to suggest Bronze Age migrants 4,000 years ago.

Sheffield University scientists explain the study at Wrexham Science Festival. 'Quite extraordinary'

A team of scientists, led by Dr Andy Grierson and Dr Robert Johnston, from the University of Sheffield is trying to find out how and why this has come about.

Dr Grierson is leading the talk at Glyndŵr University on Tuesday and wants to speak to people with ancestry in the region to discover what is known about their family history - and to provide them with an opportunity to contribute a DNA sample to the project.

"The number of people in north-east Wales with this genetic make-up is quite extraordinary," he said.

"This type of genetic make-up is usually found in the eastern Mediterranean which made us think that there might have been strong connections between north-east Wales and this part of Europe somewhere in the past.

"But this appears not to be the case, so we're still looking to find out why it's happened and what it reveals about the history of the region."

[annie laurie]

You’re right - Albanian is missing. I’ve read that it its own, distinct branch.

As is Euskara, I believe.

[James C. Bennett]

Basque cannot belong on that tree. It’s non-IE.

[annie laurie]

I don’t think that anyone knows exactly WHAT it is (non-IE or otherwise), unless there have been some new research findings that I haven’t heard about, yet :) Since it doesn’t really “belong” anywhere (again, last I heard), and it’s a language of Europe, it came to mind. Just wanted to throw it out there for those interested :)

Another missing language is Afrikaans, which has now evolved far enough from Dutch that it is considered a separate language, rather than just a dialect of Dutch.

[refreshed]

Could you please add me to your list?

Refreshed = E1b1b1

[James C. Bennett]

Good point!

[Little Ray]

The answer is easy: Tin.

Tin, to make bronze, was hard to obtain. Wales and Corwall are sources of tin from ancient times. Traders from the Med came to Wales (and Cornwall) to obtain tin and left their genetic legacy there.

[James C. Bennett]

There are a few interesting theories being thrown about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_India_theory

[fatez]

The answer is easy: Tin..

We have a winner!!! Sorry I was tardy, I was out of town. But Tin is the answer. Tin was very rare in the ancient world and highly sought after. Archaeologist are still searching for the early sources of tin used in the Early and Middle Bronze age because they think that Cornwall and Wales are just to far away. Actually tin is not really used purposely (so we think) until about 2000 BC. Bronze made before that is alloyed with arsenic or the tin is a bi-product of the copper.

Think of this, the article says that the genetics go back to 2000 BC, the start of the pre-palatial Minoan period, and tin is mined at the same time. Interesting that the Minoans or some other people may have went as far as Wales for tin.

[Sherman Logan]

Interesting, but nuts.

The entire history of Eurasia (up to the last 500 years or so, when firearms finally gave civilized peoples the ability to effectively defend themselves) has consisted of invasions of the fertile and civilized south, west and east periphery by nomads from the dry and inhospitable center. (The northern periphery was the most inhospitable area of all.)

The Out of India theory envisions people intentionally leaving fertile and comfortable lands to invade dry and inhospitable ones.

Not gonna happen.

[James C. Bennett]

"The Out of India theory envisions people intentionally leaving fertile and comfortable lands to invade dry and inhospitable ones."

Australia, Iceland, Siberia...

;^)

[gleeaikin]

If this genetic marker is 4,000 years old, then it would have been pre Roman. Was this an area of Wales that could have supplied tin to be alloyed with copper to create the Bronze Age. Perhaps ancient eastern Mediterranean peoples were traveling here by boat to either mine tin, or to trade for tin. An while there, enjoying the local female companionship. They could have had a settlement with extensive mining and commercial activity centered around the importance of the tin trade.

[apro]

They are talking about the Balkan EV13 marker which is very common in Southeast Europe. This marker has been found at significant amounts in certain regions of the UK including the old Roman trading town of Abergele situated on the northeast region of Wales.

"Roman soldiers in BritainSignificant frequencies of E-V13 have also been observed in towns in Wales, England and Scotland. The old trading town of Abergele on the northern coast of Wales in particular showed 7 out of 18 local people tested were in this lineage (approximately 40%), as reported in Weale et al. (2002). Bird (2007) attributes the overall presence of E-V13 in Great Britain, especially in areas of high frequency, to settlement during the 1st through 4th centuries CE by Roman soldiers from the Balkan peninsula. Bird proposes a connection to the modern region encompassing Kosovo, eastern Serbia, northern Republic of Macedonia and northwestern Bulgaria (a region corresponding to the Roman province of Moesia Superior), which was identified by Peričic et al. (2005) as harboring the highest frequency worldwide of this sub-clade.[Note 11]"

[Vision]

bm

[SunkenCiv]

A re-ping, also check out the links that were posted by FReepers visiting this topic:

• 'Extraordinary' genetic make-up of north-east Wales men
• Searching for the Welsh-Hindi link
• Iberian Peninsula DNA Project
• African Ancestry
• DNAPrint Genomics
• FamilyTree DNA
• GeneTree
• Int'l Society of Genetic Genealogy
• mitosearch
• Nat'l Geographic Genographic Project
• Oxford Ancestors
• RelativeGenetics
• Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation
• Trace Genetics
• ybase
• ysearch
• Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue: The Untold History of English - John McWhorter
• Sea Peoples invade: 1192-1190 BC
• Tests Reveal Amesbury Archer "King Of Stonehenge' Was A Settler From The Alps
• Minoan Atlantis
• Tocharians
• The Origins Of The British
• Out of India theory