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BERLIN SAYS WAR IS ON TO THE FINISH (10/21/39)
Microfiche-New York Times archives, McHenry Library, U.C. Santa Cruz | 10/21/39 | Felix Belair Jr., G.H. Archambault

Posted on 10/21/2009 4:53:08 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson

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TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: milhist; realtime; worldwarii
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Free Republic University, Department of History presents World War II Plus 70 Years: Seminar and Discussion Forum
First session: September 1, 2009. Last date to add: September 2, 2015.
Reading assignment: New York Times articles delivered daily to students on the 70th anniversary of original publication date. (Previously posted articles can be found by searching on keyword “realtime”.)
To add this class to or drop it from your schedule notify Admissions and Records (Attn: Homer_J_Simpson) by freepmail. Those on the Realtime +/- 70 Years ping list are automatically enrolled. Course description, prerequisites and tuition information is available at the bottom of Homer’s profile.
1 posted on 10/21/2009 4:53:10 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
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To: Homer_J_Simpson




Winston S. Churchill, The Gathering Storm

2 posted on 10/21/2009 4:55:50 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: r9etb; PzLdr; dfwgator; Paisan; From many - one.; rockinqsranch; GRRRRR; 2banana; henkster; ...
The International Situation – 1
Incidents in European Conflict – 2
Germans Angered – 2-3
Coordinating Group on Refugees Formed – 3
Reich Army Victor Over Navy on Strategy; Greater Nazi Air Activity Expected in West – 4*
Roosevelt Warns Our Sea Frontier Expands With Need – 5-6
West Front Active Near Luxembourg – 7-8
Finns Are Ready For Russian Talks – 8
Nazi Scout Planes Fly Over Scotland – 9
British Peace Group Under Surveillance – 9
Last Russian Troops Are Now in Estonia – 11
Britain Relaxes Control Of Gas and Electricity – 11

*Also on #4, more on the strange affair of Unity Mitford.

3 posted on 10/21/2009 4:58:25 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

“Brittan thinks neutrality of Italy is assured” ha.


4 posted on 10/21/2009 4:58:49 AM PDT by villagerjoel (1. Implement socialist policies 2. ??? 3. Heaven on earth)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Thanks for all your efforts.


5 posted on 10/21/2009 5:01:34 AM PDT by Larry Lucido (This tagline excerpted. To read more, click on MyOverratedBlog.com)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1939/oct39/f21oct39.htm

Gamelin does not intend to attack
Saturday, October 21, 1939 www.onwar.com

In Paris... General Gamelin, the Allied Commander-in-Chief, says that he has no intention of attacking the Germans. He has issued orders that if the Germans attack in strength, the French should retreat behind the Maginot Line fortifications.

On the Western Front... The opposing forces exchange artillery fire in heavy rain.

In Rome... An agreement is signed by the German and Italian governments for the transfer to the Third Reich of ethnic Germans in South Tyrol.

In the North Sea... RAF fighters shoot down 4 out of 9 He115 seaplanes attacking a British convoy. No casualties are suffered by the British aircraft, nor is any damage done to the convoy or escorts.

In the North Atlantic... The French Force de raide (including the world’s fastest destroyers) escorts a large Atlantic convoy (until October 30th) and intercepts the German SS Sante Fe.


6 posted on 10/21/2009 5:02:29 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_de_Raid

The Force de Raid was a French naval unit based at Brest until 1940. It included some of the most modern capital ships of its day organised into two squadrons, commanded at the outbreak of World War II by Vice Amiral Marcel Gensoul. The Force effectively ceased to exist as a separate unit after the British attack on Mers-el-Kébir.


7 posted on 10/21/2009 5:03:10 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Are these old articles available online? Or are you actually going in the library every day and scanning them?

Just wondering, since there was no link provided.


8 posted on 10/21/2009 5:08:27 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: canuck_conservative

I photocopy from the microfiche reader. Then scan the articles, upload to photobucket, download to Word for posting. But I don’t go every day. More like three times for a month’s worth of articles.


9 posted on 10/21/2009 5:18:57 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: canuck_conservative

Well done!


10 posted on 10/21/2009 5:23:16 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Interesting that back then they referred to Helsinki as Helsingfors, I take it that’s the Swedish name.


11 posted on 10/21/2009 7:05:47 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: abb
"In the North Sea... RAF fighters shoot down 4 out of 9 He115 seaplanes attacking a British convoy."

Heinkel He 115:

"At the beginning of the war, the He 115 was used for dropping parachute mines in British waters, normally aiming for narrow passages in close vicinity of heavily-trafficked ports on the English south coast. The River Thames was also a prime target.

"However, the aircraft had its finest moment when operating in the anti-shipping role against the Arctic convoys from bases in Northern Norway. Because these convoys initially lacked air cover, the low speed and comparatively light armament of the He 115 was not such a big problem as it had been over the heavily-defended English coastline.

"Later on, with the appearance of carriers and escort carriers, coupled with new Soviet heavy fighters like the Petlyakov Pe-3bis, the air superiority over the convoys was challenged, and as a result, the torpedo bomber losses were increasing."

12 posted on 10/21/2009 7:29:33 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Churchill’s request here for special-built anti-aircraft “tortoise” ships sounds odd to me. Did anything ever come of it? I’m thinking it probably was not realistic, and there must have been a certain amount of muttering about all the stuff that “crazy old man” kept asking for. ;-)


13 posted on 10/21/2009 7:36:34 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK

Many British Cruisers were modified during WW II by removing one of the main gun turrets and replacing the space with additional AA armament. As equipment was added, the ships became top-heavy and the quickest/best solution was removal of a turret and guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_class_cruiser_(1936)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Colony_class_cruiser
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leander_class_cruiser_(1931)

No British Battleships were modified during the war by removing main armament guns or turrets, IIRC.

Now also remember Churchill is making these suggestions before the importance of sea-based air power had become firmly established. If the US/UK knew in 1939 what they knew in 1943, they would have concentrated more on aircraft carriers than on battleships and other gun-type ships.


14 posted on 10/21/2009 7:57:42 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: BroJoeK
Churchill’s request here for special-built anti-aircraft “tortoise” ships sounds odd to me. Did anything ever come of it? I’m thinking it probably was not realistic . . .

It sounds like lunacy to me.

"But we must make at least five other ships air-proof - i.e., ot afraid of a thousand-pound armour-piercing bomb, if by chance it should hit from ten thousand feet."

This notion might have come to him as part of his scheme for launching a naval offensive in the Baltic, under the Luftwaffe umbrella.

"I want four or five ships made into tortoises that we can put where we like and go to sleep content."

Perhaps if you are sleeping in London. I might toss and turn a bit if I was relying on the overhead to protect me from a thousand pound bomb.

there must have been a certain amount of muttering about all the stuff that “crazy old man” kept asking for.

"God help us if he ever becomes PM!"

15 posted on 10/21/2009 8:07:01 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Something seemed familiar about today's headline. I found some similar ones:

9/20/39 - "HITLER TELLS ALLIES IT IS HIS PEACE OR A FINISH FIGHT"
10/7/39 - "HITLER DEMANDS HIS PEACE OR A WAR OF DESTRUCTION"
10/13/39 - "WAR IN EARNEST UNLESS U.S. ACTS, BERLIN SAYS"
10/21/39 - "BERLIN SAYS WAR IS ON TO THE FINISH"

Well, I'm glad we finally got that settled. I wonder if it is significant that "Berlin" has replaced "Hitler" as the proclaimer of doom.

16 posted on 10/21/2009 8:19:16 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
First Meeting of the Advisory Committee on Uranium

21 October 1939

Back on October 11th Alexander Sachs, a Wall Street economist and longtime friend of FDR got with Roosevelt to discuss the letter written by Albert Einstein back on August 2nd. With him he brought a copy of a lecture by Francis Aston from 1936 titled "Forty Years of Atomic Theory" that had been published in 1938 as part of the Background to Modern Science collection. Sachs read the entire lecture to Roosevelt with emphasis on the last sentences that read:

Personally I think there is no doubt that sub-atomic energy is available all around us, and that one day man will release and control its almost infinite power. we cannot prevent him from doing so and can only hope that he will not use it exclusively in blowing up his next door neighbor.

Roosevelt got the point and proposed a committee headed by Dr. Lyman J. Briggs who was at the time the director of the Bureau of Standards. Along with him he added Army representative Lt. Colonel Keith F. Adamson and Navy representative Cmdr. Gilbert C. Hoover. Both men were ordinance experts. This was the "Advisory Committee on Uranium" set up that FDR references in his reply to Einstein on 19 October.

Briggs set the first meeting of the committee on October 21 in Washington. Sach proposed that they also invite some of the emigres who mostly were scientists that had fled Europe due to Nazi pressure. Brigs invited Merle Tuve who couldn't make it and sent Richard Roberts in his place. Enrico Fermi was still holding a grudge against the Navy and refused to attend. He allowed Hungarian physicist Edward Teller to attend and speak on his behalf. Also invited was Leo Szilard who had convinced Einstein to write the August letter in the first place.

So at the October 21st meeting there was:

Briggs - Director of Advisory Committee on Uranium
Sachs - Wall Street economist and FDR adviser
Adamson - Army
Hoover - Navy

And the scientists:

Szilard
Wigner
Roberts
Teller

In this meeting Szilard discussed the possibility of a sustained chain reaction and the potential destructive power of an uncontrolled one. He estimated that a potential uranium bomber would yield an explosive equivalent of 20,000 tons of TNT.

Of those present Teller, Wigner and Sachs(oddly enough) supported Szilard's position on the potential destructive power of a Uranium bomb while Robers was skeptical that this had really been proven and both military attaches showed their own degree of doubt and even hostility.

Cmdr Hoover was first to pose the question of funds when he asked Szilard how much money he needed to prove the theory of sustained chain reactions. Teller was quick to answer telling Hoover that they would need $6000 to purchase the graphite (Szilard would follow up on the 26th requesting $33,000 to get the graphite and fund the experiment).

Adamson had expected the conversation to lead to money and had the ensuing sparing match is described by Szilard:

He [Adamson] told us that it was naive to believe that we could make a significant contribution to defense by creating a new weapon. He said that if a new weapon is created, it usually takes two wars before one can know whether the weapon is any good or not. Then he explained rather laboriously that it is in the end not weapons which win wars, but the morale of the troops. He went on in this vein for a long time until suddenly Wigner, the most polite of us, interrupted him. [Wigner] said in his high-pitched voice that it was very interesting for him to hear this. He always thought that weapons were very important and that this is what costs money, and this is why the Army needs such a large appropriation. But he was very interested to hear that he was wrong: it's not weapons but the morale which wins the wars. And if this is correct, perhaps one should take a second look at the budget of the Army, and maybe the budget could get cut.

At this Adamson snapped back "you'll get your money!"

This was the beginning of what would become the Manhattan project and the invention of the atomic bomb. $6000 dollars and a committee. At this point they still hadn't proven Fermi's theory for last January that a chain reaction could be sustained. I met Edward Teller at his home in Stanford in 1999. His mind was just as sharp in his last years as they must have been back then. I asked him a lot of questions that day but now that I'm older I wish I could go back to that day. I would have asked better questions than what I did.

Alot of this material is referenced from The Making of the Atomic Bomb - by Richard Rhodes

The two block quotes are from that book on pages 314 and 317 respectively.

17 posted on 10/21/2009 8:46:31 AM PDT by CougarGA7 (My tagline is an honor student at Free Republic Elementary School.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

“special-built anti-aircraft “tortoise” ships sounds odd to me. Did anything ever come of it?”

This was put in to practice with the Illustrious and Implacable classes of Aircraft Carriersw to armor the flight deck, making the flight deck the strength deck. he plusses here are that if the armor holds, bombs can be kept out of the ship completely. The negatives are that the size of lifts is restricted, stability problems are hellish and the airgroup capacity is comparatively small.

From a 2000 article by Stuart Slade, called “Armor Protection on American and British Carriers”

“The US went the way it did because they had plenty of aircraft, used deck parks and envisaged launching mass strikes. They were able to base carrier defense on having fighters. The British were hobbled by the RAF that allocated few resources to the FAA, so the carriers had few and obsolete fighters. They had to build their carriers to take damage.

Off Okinawa, the resistance of the British carriers seemed impressive but in reality the damage they took was severe. Having the hangar inside the hull girder made the hull structure weak and the ships were deformed by comparatively minor damage.

Note how quickly nearly all the armored carriers were scrapped postwar - surveys showed they had irreparable hull damage. In contrast, the Essex’s, which suffered much more severe damage, lasted for decades.

The severe damage suffered by the British armored carriers is documented by their post-war surveys. These surveys were carried out to determine the suitability of the ships for modernization.

Of the British armored carriers, Formidable and Illustrious were write-offs due to war damage. By the end of the war, Illustrious was in very poor condition; her centerline shaft was history due to structural deformation and her machinery was shot.

Formidable had raped herself when a Firefly (sic – aircraft that caused the damage was actually a Corsair) rolled off a lift and raked the hangar with 20 mm gunfire. This started a very bad fire which was contained within the hangar and acted like a furnace. The heat deformed the hull and that was it.

Indomitable was actually used in the post-war fleet and was modernized (lightly). In 1951 she had a gasoline explosion in her hangar deck. This was actually quite minor (an Essex would have shrugged it off) but the fact it was contained and was within the hull girder caused severe damage. She was patched with concrete for the Coronation Review, then scrapped. “

So, it’s a tossup, I think. The Armoured Decks saved lives and ship, but made the damages they received much for fatal in the long term.


18 posted on 10/21/2009 12:04:58 PM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

NAVAL EVENTS-Saturday, 21 October 1939

The crew of the Norwegian steamer LORENTZ W HANSEN arrived on Norwegian tanker KONGSDAL (9959grt) at Kirkwall and brought news proving that both German pocket battleships ADMIRAL GRAF SPEE and DEUTSCHLAND were at sea. It had been thought that all the sinkings to date had been due to a single battleship.

Light cruisers GLASGOW and NEWCASTLE, at sea since the 12th, were sent to escort convoy KJ.3, then en route from the West Indies. They detached on the 24th and the convoy arrived at Land’s End on the 25th. NEWCASTLE reached Portsmouth on the 26th and GLASGOW on the 27th.

Destroyer FORESIGHT was boiler cleaning at Scapa Flow until the 26th.

Anti-aircraft cruisers CAIRO and CALCUTTA departed Grimsby on escort duty and arrived back the same day.

Anti-aircraft cruiser COVENTRY departed Immingham to support a convoy under air attack, and at sea, joined sister ships CAIRO and CALCUTTA with the convoy, which was escorted to Flamborough Head. COVENTRY experienced a steering gear defect and returned to Immingham, docking on the 26th for repairs completed on 14 November. She then left next day for duty at Sullom Voe.

Four former British anti-submarine trawlers arrived at Brest for duty as the French 13th Patrol Squadron. They were CANCALAISE (ex-ST AMANDUS, LV R R L Birot), HAVRAISE (ex-ST ATTALUS, EV Harduin), LORIENTAISE (ex-ST ANDRONICUS, LV F Drogou) and NANTAISE (ex-ST ARCADIUS, LV L M A Jaume). They went into service on 17 January 1940.

German steamer GLORIA (5896grt), which had departed Buenos Aires on the 6th, was captured by light cruiser SHEFFIELD on Northern Patrol in the Denmark Strait, six to ten miles off the north coast of Iceland. As GLORIA was being taken to Kirkwall by a prize crew commanded by Sub Lt S Phillips, three of her crew escaped in a lifeboat, but were later picked up and landed at Methil on the 28th. GLORIA was renamed EMPIRE CONVEYOR in British service.

German steamer POSEIDON (5864grt) departed Rio de Janiero on 1 September to return to Germany, but was forced to put into Mar del Plata on the 5th to avoid contact with light cruiser AJAX. She was finally able to leave for Germany on 1 October, but was captured during the afternoon of the 21st by armed merchant cruiser SCOTSTOUN north of Iceland in the Denmark Strait.
Heavy weather prevented a boarding party from being put aboard at that time, and it was not until the afternoon of the 22nd that Py/Lt C W Armstrong RNR and his men were able to go across. SCOTSTOUN then escorted POSEIDON for 29 hours before losing touch in thick snow.

Armed merchant cruiser TRANSYLVANIA finally found the missing ship early on the 25th, but she was incapable of steaming, taken in tow and proceeded towards Reykjavik with cruiser SHEFFIELD in company. When Icelandic waters were reached, SHEFFIELD detached and returned to Sullom Voe, being relieved on Northern Patrol by light cruiser SOUTHAMPTON. However, before reaching Reykavik, TRANSYLVANIA’s tow line parted in a gale and she was forced to sink POSEIDON with gunfire on the 27th.

Light cruiser DIOMEDE departed Sullom Voe for Northern Patrol between Shetlands and Faroes, and arrived back on the 25th.

Destroyers KELLY and KINGSTON arrived at Loch Ewe for operations with the Home Fleet.

Destroyer VALOROUS attacked a submarine contact six to seven miles east of Scarborough.

Minesweeper/escort vessel JASON attacked a submarine contact 2 miles 105 degrees from South Rock Light Vessel, Belfast.

Convoy OA.23 of 15 ships departed Southend escorted by destroyers ACASTA and ARDENT from the 21st to 23rd, and the convoy dispersed on the 26th.

Convoy OB.23 departed Liverpool escorted by destroyers VOLUNTEER and VERSATILE, which detached to KJ.3 on the 24th.

French steamer CAPITAINE EDMOND LABORIE (3087grt) was sunk two miles E of Inner Dowsing Light Vessel on a mine laid by U.19 on the 17th.

Norwegian steamer DEODATA (3295grt) was sunk 1.5 miles off Inner Dowsing Light Vessel in, by a mine laid by U.19 on the 17th, without the loss of any crew.

Steamer ORSA (1478grt) was sunk 15 miles 150 degrees from Flamborough by a mine laid by U.15 on 6 September, with the loss of 16 crew.

Light cruiser DAUNTLESS departed Aden en route to Colombo, and was ordered to examine the Cargados, Carajos, Chagos groups for German activity.

Hunter Force M with French heavy cruisers DUPLEIX and FOCH, and Force N with French battlecruiser STRASBOURG and British aircraft carrier HERMES, were reassigned to cover the Dakar to Pernambuco route:

(1) Force X, which became effective in mid-November, consisted of HERMES, DUPLEIX and FOCH, while

(2) Force Y had STRASBOURG, with French light cruiser DUGUAY TROUIN and the British NEPTUNE.


19 posted on 10/21/2009 12:11:57 PM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

War Diary and War Standing Orders of Commander in Chief, Submarines

U 31 and U 53 sailed for their operations areas.

U 31 to mine Loch Ewe with TMB in accordance with operations Order No. 9 (the operation originally intended for U 32).

U 53 is to proceed first to an area southwest of Ireland. She is to operate there against merchant shipping until U 26, which is sailing on 22.10, has had time to carry out her minelaying operation.


20 posted on 10/21/2009 12:19:30 PM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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