Posted on 09/08/2009 6:43:09 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants
Okay, assume Obama is determined to be ineligible to be the president due to him not being a natural born citizen of the United States. That would mean that neither he nor Biden would be eligible since he was elected under false pretenses.
It is quite possible that Pelosi will be facing charges up to treason for her part in this mess.
Byrd is physically unable to take the office.
And the rest of the Cabinet were appointed by Obama and would equally be ineligible as all of his appointments were unconstitutional.
My guess is that if this goes down, Pelosi resigns or is removed as Speaker of the House and we end up with another Rat.
However, the argument may also be made that since the elections results are null, the people who voted for Obama were duped and deserve another chance. There is no constitutional provision for what to do if a usurper were to manage to lie and connive his way into office because the founding fathers could never envision such a scenario.
So, what happens?
At least thats what I would start telling the liberals followed by his first order of business is a video message to all the school children.
That would be wonderful. He could immediately pick a VP and start cleaning out the White House of all the commie czar trash.
You do. Constitutionaly there is no ticket. There are Electors. They voted for Obama as President. They voted for Biden as Vice President. The qualifications and duties of those jibs are laid out in the US Constitution.
Biden is the answer.
The offices of president and vice president are elected seperately by the electors. The Constitution leaves it up to the states how to decide the electors. Electors don’t always vote for the “ticket”. In one election an elector voted for a Libertarian for vice president.
The ultimate Borking. Or would that be considered "Borklash"... :)
Sadly true.
Yep, Biden.
This thread, from premise to nearly ALL the responses, is a prime example of a malady that permeates ‘our side’ — chronic inability to deal with reality due to over-investment in fantasy scenarios. Burn enough energy in these useless discussions and what will you have left for the hard slogging of every-day reality ?
Hussein IS the President ‘til, at least, 2012 — barring impeachment or a similar coup, god forbid. The whole fabric of the Executive / Legislative / Judicial infrastructure will successfully conspire to prevent the kind of Constitutional ‘crisis’ such a removal inevitably MUST produce. Look what happened when ‘we’ had Clintoon dead in our sights and managed to pull off an impeachment trial, even. The ‘establishment’ successfully conspired to assure themselves they wouldn’t have to deal with the ‘removal’ crisis. End of story.
There is simply NO WAY in Reality that the ‘Birther’ fantasy plays out with Hussein being expelled. At best, one may hope that a procedural upgrade or merely adequate media ‘coverage’ in future elections obviates the operation of this flaw in the Presidential nomination / election process. ( Similarly, one might also — fervently ! — hope that the ‘open primary’ flaw is appropriately addressed. )
In the meantime, how ‘bout we expend our powder on ‘live’ targets, not useless fantasies ?
One man’s opinion ...
21stCenturion
As weird/misguided Gore is, I think even HE would be a better choice than Obama or Biden; Gore, I believe, has no desire to destroy the US, either intentionally or unintentionally.
Quayle is a good solid man, as far as that goes, from everything I’ve seen/heard about him.
>I already know how they would do it in the USA and according to the Constitution.
As long as we’re on the topic of acting according to the Constitution I have a few questions regarding treason:
1) If slandering and demoralizing troops acting in a battlefield, condemning them on national tv, and subsequently validating the claims made enemies of the US (even though such condemnation was later found to be false) then why hasn’t John Murtha been tried for treason?
2) If treason is adhering to the enemies of the US, or giving aid and comfort to the same, then wouldn’t the abridgment of people’s rights on behalf of a traitor be treasonous itself?
3) Given that an individual legislator’s job is not to determine the guilt/innocence, and also that a legislator cannot be fired, then how could the courts rule that a law protecting federal employees in execution of their office from civil suit applied to Murtha in the above instance?
4) Given the massive fraud wherewhich an ineligible person would be ‘elected’ president, should Obama be found ineligible; how can we be sure that ANY public official is indeed eligible for that office? Further, that would amount to Conspiracy Against Rights (USC title 18, pt 1, Ch 13, sec 241) which is a possibly Capital crime and it would be FOOLISH to allow ANYONE the power to pardon those involved when we don’t know who IS involved. That is to say that should there be a conspiracy then anyone with ANY possibility of being involved should not hold that power. (Blaise Pascal said: “It is not permitted for even the most equitable of men to be a judge in their own cause.” in part due to the judicial power that judges have traditionally held; however, a judge could also [traditionally] drop the case or pardon the perp... though pardoning the perp might anger the people to the point of killing an unjust judge.)
Let me put the question to you this way: Who would you TRUST to hold the office of president? Especially taking into account that there would/should be investigation and trials for MANY people in political power right now on the very subject? {ie Who can we trust not to [ab]use “Presidential Pardon”?}
>How do you see things going in ‘Make it up as you go along Land’?
“That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
We shall see.
“As weird/misguided Gore is, I think even HE would be a better choice than Obama or Biden; Gore, I believe, has no desire to destroy the US, either intentionally or unintentionally.”
~~~~~~~~~
Al Gore, with his one note global warming hysteria, has single-handedly done more economic harm and caused more wrong thinking in our school and college kids than Biden would ever be capable of.
Al Gore has a desire not only to destroy the US, but rather to reshape the world and the US along with it using his green movement. He is unreasoned, unhinged, unbalanced, irrational. Add your own synonyms here. I think the loss did him in.
Al Gore wouldn’t know the working end of a free market principle or a scientific principle for that matter if it bit him on the ass.
My point isn’t that Gore would be a GOOD choice, jut that I think Gore would be better in the role of president than either Obama or Biden... That’s a lot like saying “I’d rather have to eat my own boogers than have to eat my own vomit or defecation.” (ie, a REALLY back-handed complement.)
Pelosi would be toast due to her signature on a critical doc. Please let it happen soon.
The electors vote both for President and Vice President separately.
Therefore, Biden himself, who is eligible Constitutionally to be President, is still the legitimate VP.
Therefore it’s Biden.
Other arguments can be presented, but it’s Biden.
Algore would consign the lumpen proletariat to eco-slavery whilst he raked in big derivative/carbon credit bucks. Have you all read the Crap and Tax bill? Good luck selling any home built more than a couple years ago. Seller must pay for the ‘greening’ of the home.
Apple didn’t fall far from the tree: Algore Sr. of Occidental Petroleum wealth was muy simpatico with the very red Armand Hammer, who, IIRC, was the only yank to have the green light to fly into the USSR anytime he fancied a trip.
Any thoughts?
***
I have researched this extensively and have posted on FR many times since the election ...
Now, in this exercise, we are assuming that Obama was found to be ineligible ...
Since Biden’s election would be also in doubt (having run as a ticket with Obama), the Speaker of the House (unfortunately) would likely be named ACTING President until the issue is resolved.
1. Obama’s electoral vote in the Electoral College would not count. His electors were selected to the Electoral College on the basis of fraud and would NEVER have been seated if Obama had not “won” the election in the first place.
Now, what happens ???
The Electoral College would be declared null and void as far as the choice for President goes. As currently written in the Constitution and per the 12th Amendment, the House of Representatives would then make the choice.
However, the House would be constrained by the following:
12th Amendment:
” ... if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice ...”
In this case, the choice would be limited to one name - McCain (Obama being excluded due to ineligibility). McCain would need 26 votes to claim the Presidency (which he would likely get).
So, what about Biden ???
Biden was duly elected and is qualified to be POTUS, but he DID NOT receive his electoral vote by running as an individual candidate. Obama’s electors were ALSO his electors.
Does Biden benefit from Obama’s fraud and become POTUS permanently ???
Interesting question ...
Here is the best analogy that I have heard so far - it comes from a VERY respected attorney:
A man inherits 1 million dollars from his uncle and the man’s brother is cut out of the will. There is one stipulation - the man has to be a natural born citizen, otherwise the brother inherits. At the time, it is assumed that the man is a natural born citizen.
The man subsequently names his business partner as the sole heir in his will - then the man dies. Upon his death, it is determined that the man WAS NOT a natural born citizen.
Does the business partner inherit - or does the man’s brother inherit under the conditions of the uncle’s original will ???
The answer is that the business partner DOES NOT inherit ALL OF IT under the “Fruit of the Poisonous Tree” doctrine. The man’s brother inherits under the terms of the original will (but no more than 1 million plus interest). Any leftover money goes to the business partner.
In our case:
Biden MIGHT be able to sustain the case that he was duly elected and SCOTUS would likely have to rule on that. If sustained, Biden would remain VEEP.
Absent that, the Electoral College would be declared null and void as far as the choice for Vice-President goes. As currently written in the Constitution and per the 12th Amendment, the Senate would then make the choice.
The Senate would then be constrained by the following:
12th Amendment:
” ... if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice ...”
In this case, the choice would be limited to two names - Biden and Palin. 51 votes would be needed to claim the Vice-Presidency. Given the current constituency of the Senate - Biden would almost certainly be VEEP.
So, the answer is ...
McCain POTUS, Biden VEEP
BTW:
It is interesting that the 12th Amendment was adopted to avoid Biden’s possible problem here (running on a ticket). The election of 1800 caused the problem with Burr and Jefferson tying in the Presidential vote. The 12th Amendment largely eliminated the problem by separating the electoral vote for POTUS and VEEP at the FEDERAL level. They should have gone further and eliminated it at the STATE level too.
The electors vote both for President and Vice President separately.
Therefore, Biden himself, who is eligible Constitutionally to be President, is still the legitimate VP.
Therefore it’s Biden.
Other arguments can be presented, but it’s Biden.
***
It is NOT so cut and dried ...
Obama sent 365 electors (individuals) to the Electoral College.
These 365 electors WERE ALSO the same 365 electors for Biden.
You are saying that the 365 votes for Obama can be discounted AND that they CAN be counted FOR Biden.
Faulty logic ...
The electors that were sent to the Electoral College voted separately for POTUS and VEEP, but they were SELECTED in each state as a TICKET for POTUS and VEEP. This is where the process breaks down.
Absent any extra-constitutional intervention by SCOTUS (such as a new election), the 12th Amendment is in play.
The Electoral College vote for POTUS and VEEP would be declared null and void ...
The House would then choose POTUS and the Senate would choose VEEP.
See my post #75. Especially my BTW comment at the end.
The exploding heads will be fun to watch!
There are multiple possibilities.
1) Biden becomes president per the 20th and 25th amendment.
2) Biden is complicit in the coverup of Obama’s eligibility and is also taken down with Obama.
3) Pelosi becomes president because Biden is entangled with Obama in high crimes and misdemeanors.
4) Pelosi is also complicit in the crime mentioned in numbers 2 and 3. No presidency for her.
5) Hillary becomes president for the remainder of the Obama term as she is 4th in line for the presidency. See above to why.
6) Congress and/or SCOTUS agrees to new elections and president Biden for the interim. Per 20th amendment.
There are more...
Oops, forgot about Byrd. As pointed out, He’s in no shape to become president.
There are multiple possibilities.
***
Also, McCain POTUS via an originally fraudulent Electoral College process - corrected by the House selecting the new POTUS (per the 12th Amendment) ...
And you wonder why SCOTUS is DESPERATELY trying to stay out of this ???
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