Targeting Lost Causers

Old Virginia Blog ^ | 06/09/2009 | Richard Williams

[Davy Buck]

My oh my, what would the critics, the Civil War publications, publishers, and bloggers do if it weren't for the bad boys of the Confederacy and those who study them and also those who wish to honor their ancestors who fought for the Confederacy?

[stainlessbanner]

Dixie Ping

[GOP_Raider]

I wonder how long it’ll take before IrishCatholic pops into the thread...

[BroJoeK]

"These rules held until Lincoln violated them in the War Between the States, replacing them with the logic of annihilation that governed primitive or “primary warfare” — the unrestricted slaughter common between warring societies with no civilized principles in common."

"Logic of annihilation"? And you can present evidence to support such an outrageous lie?

[TexConfederate1861]

It isn’t nonsense. He quotes reputable sources. You just don’t like it because it shows Lincoln as he was. Not a pretty picture compared to the “Saint Abe” crap that has been shoved down throats since 1865.

[4CJ]

His ilk have that whole slavery stigma to overcome, which is a losing prospect.

The US had legalized slavery for over 200 years, north and south. Lincoln advocated an amendment that would have made slavery permanent and irrevocable. Almost 80% of the changes made by the Confederate Constitution were for less taxes, less big government, and the elimination of pork and government subsidies.

[thatdewd]

My oh my, what would the critics, the Civil War publications, publishers, and bloggers do if it weren't for the bad boys of the Confederacy...

Maybe they could focus on how the glorious heroes of the north immediately went west and waged a campaign of attempted genocide against Native Americans.

[BroJoeK]

"Anyone that says anything positive about the Confederacy is going to get attacked."

Nonsense.

There is much to admire in the courage & endurance of the South's soldiers, in the brilliance of some leaders, and of course, anyone supporting smaller, more restricted government is much appreciated by Conservatives.

But lots of folks love to lie about the South's cause -- claim it wasn't all about slavery (yes it was!), or that the North conducted a war of annihilation (not even close!).

If those are your arguments, then expect to be called to task for them.

[Nosterrex]

I appreciate the fact that you do recognize some good things about the Confederacy; however, the argument is always over the cause(s) of the Civil War. The term annihilation may be too strong, but the Union declared war against civilians, raped, pillaged, looted, and burned its way across the South.

[BroJoeK]

"The Civil War was not about slavery, but that was a side element of the disputes. It was about conflicting economic interests."

Complete nonsense. It was ONLY about salvery, nothing else, because Americans won't fight and die for abstract ideas or "economic interests."

Here's what it was really all about:

"Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord:
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword:
His truth is marching on.

(Chorus)
"Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

"I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps,
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps:
His day is marching on.
(Chorus)

"I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal;
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel,
Since God is marching on."
(Chorus)

"He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat:
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.
(Chorus)

"In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.
(Chorus)

"He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave,
He is Wisdom to the mighty, He is Succour to the brave,
So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of Time His slave,
Our God is marching on.
(Chorus)

"Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Our God is marching on."

[Texas Fossil]

Union declared war against civilians, raped, pillaged, looted, and burned its way across the South.

Absolute fact-

Many of my ancestors were literally burned out of Alabama during Reconstruction and went GTT. That is how we came to live in Texas.

No one here worships the Old South, but the hatred of that repression still linger strong here. I do not need a history book to explain this. It is very personal.

[Texas Fossil]

How’s that working out?

I agree, and it is not working.

[Clemenza]

Forget the neoconfederate historical revisionists who ignore the fact that slavery was THE hot button issue that divided the Republic. They just use every excuse to legitimize their “lost cause.”

[BroJoeK]

"The term annihilation may be too strong, but the Union declared war against civilians, raped, pillaged, looted, and burned its way across the South."

Not even close.

The number of soldiers who died in the Civil War was somewhere around 600,000.

The number of innocent civilians accidentally killed was a few dozen. Typically these were spectators at battles.

Both armies "requisitioned" supplies from local sources. These normally involved "payment" with currency which may or may not have had any real value.

The charge of systematic rape is not documented, that I know of. Indeed, if I remember right, Union General Hooker had a solution to the problem of young soldiers' biological urges -- a solution that still bears his name today!

Yes, it's true that Sherman did burn some buildings in Georgia, but not nearly what was later claimed, and only after a Southern army had burned down Chambersburg, Pennsylvania.

Gen's Early & McCausland Burn Down Chambersburg, PA

For a recounting of what Sherman actually did, and a copy of his orders to his troops, see this link:

Sherman's March to the Sea

[BroJoeK]

"Many of my ancestors were literally burned out of Alabama during Reconstruction..."

I can't answer for or defend Reconstruction. Nor can I say who actually burned out your Alabama ancestors.

But what I'm certain of is that the Reconstruction which actually happened was not necessarily what Lincoln intended, or would have allowed. Indeed, if I remember right, Lincoln's Vice President Johnson was impeached for opposing Radical Republican reconstruction plans.

I don't think we should blame Lincoln for what happened after he was murdered.

[Texas Fossil]

But what I'm certain of is that the Reconstruction which actually happened was not necessarily what Lincoln intended, or would have allowed.

No Argument from me on that point. What I stated did in fact happen during the Radical Republican Supression of Alabama.

[Nosterrex]

Well, sir, you and have a much different view of history and historical records. As much as I would like to discuss the issue, I do not see any room for persuasion, only disagreement.

[Colonel Kangaroo]

A lot of criminals attach themselves to both sides in war, especially a Civil War. But if you’re going to judge both sides by their worst, the Confederates were at least every bit as bad as the Union and in my opinion the rebs were probably a lot worse.

[Nosterrex]

Everyone has opinions.

[Colonel Kangaroo]

I got two problems with DiLorenzo. First is his misuse and ignoring of context to paint a wildly false picture of Lincoln. But I find even more offensive his single minded portrayal of a improbable monster, a depraved human being even beyond Stalin. I believe there is something to be said for trying to see the good also in your fellow Americans. For instance, even though Jefferson Davis was a an incompetent, slavery promoting bloody-handed tyrant, I gladly concede that in his personal life he was a devoted and honorable devoted family man who even tried to improve the life of his slaves. DiLorenzo’s portrait of Lincoln is children’s comic book mentality unsuitable for adults. DiLorewnzo needs to be writing about Lex Luthor and Superman.

[Colonel Kangaroo]

In their focus on defending and justifying the Confederacy to Yankees, Southerners are often largely unaware of Confederate home front misrule and oppressions. For future reference, here's a link to a preview of book you might want to check out sometime. It details a Confederate reign of terror in a Tennessee county far worse than most of what I've ever heard Sherman accused of. Persecution of old men, organized government extortion, gun confiscation, flag desecration, murder, eyeball gouging, religious persecution and election stealing are some of the Confederate crimes detailed. In some ways it was similar to Democrats today.

CONFEDERATE CRIMES