*** The OFFICIAL Weekend Singles Thread *** September 21-23, 2007 - National Singles' Week

September 21, 2007 | WFTR

[WFTR]

Greetings, and Welcome to another Weekend Singles' Thread.

This week is National Unmarried and Single Americans Week or National USA Week as the sponsors like to say. The official website for this week is at

http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/usaweek/intro.htm .

This "celebration" started on Monday and will run through the weekend. The celebration is being promoted by a group called "Unmarried America" that calls itself "an information source for the new unmarried majority." This group is trying to capture and represent the interests of all unmarried people and wants to reach out to those beyond traditional "singles" to include widows and widowers, homosexuals, couples living together without marrying, single parents, and about anyone else who isn't married. If you follow the link posted above, you can read a little more about this group.

My first question to our group is, "Do you like the idea of a day or a week set aside to celebrate the contributions of unmarried people to society?" Beyond this question, a few others come to mind. Here they are.

Do you like the idea of setting aside days, weeks, or months to celebrate certain demographic groups or are these celebrations generally a bad idea?

Do you think being unmarried is a good thing to celebrate in this way?

Do you think that this group can effectively represent your views? As part of this question, do you think that all unmarried people have more in common with one another than they do with married people? For instance, does the unmarried couple raising children together have more in common with a traditional family or with a single person living alone?

Speaking of being single

While we're thinking about being single and maybe finding a way not to be single, I wanted to focus on a couple of points from an article that appeared earlier in the month. I’m sure that some of us saw this article and may have discussed it on other threads. I never had a chance to catch the threads, but I want to ask a couple of specific questions.

The article is sarcastically called "Earth-Shattering Study: Men Like Good-Looking Women" and can be found at

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295649,00.html?sPage=fnc.science/humanbody .

My own short explanation of the study is that they used a speed-dating event to study men's and women's choices. They found that in spite of what people claimed to want in the opposite sex, each sex made certain choices. Men chose the best-looking women. Women were aware of how their appearance compared with that of other women and chose the best men that they thought they could attract. The article didn't say how the researchers measured the "most attractive" women or the "best" men.

A crude but maybe accurate interpretation of what they are saying is that we all fall into a kind of relationship caste system. In sports terminology that Americans use more often to describe relationships, we're each in a "league," and we have little chance of dating or marrying someone "outside our league." If we just don't have the right stuff to marry someone in the major league, then we have to learn to accept someone in the minor league.

Do you believe that this idea accurately reflects the way relationships work? In general, are we in a kind of relationship caste system where the best and most beautiful date and marry one another while the rest of us are relegated to finding a lesser partner of our own lesser ranks or is it just as likely for someone who isn't one of the best or most beautiful to build a great relationship with someone is one of the best or most beautiful? I know that we can often find one exception to any rule, but I'm looking for people's opinions of whether the rule is real or just a dating urban legend.

The second issue that came to mind as I read this study is how valid the whole speed-dating scenario is. Some people claim that everything in life is about making a first impression. Recently, I saw an article that claimed that the first impression determines whether someone interviewing for a job will get the job. Of course, many of the people making these claims are people who are trying to sell a system for making a first impression, so they have a vested interest in making us believe that first impressions are most important.

When it comes to dating, how much do you rely on first impressions? If you meet someone in a setting where you are likely to see that person again, do you make an evaluation that is likely to be permanent or do you wait to see how this person's character and traits will unfold over time? Does your impression of someone's attractiveness tend to change over time or are your first impressions usually accurate? Do you think this says more about you or about the people you've met?

Speaking of looks

A final question came from something that Dances with Cats asked a month or so ago. I may get the details of the question wrong, but I think I've captured the basics. The question for each of us is "Do you have a vision of for the physical appearance of the person who is right for you." This vision may not be the appearance that you find most attractive as an ideal but is a physical description of how you think Mr. or Mrs. Right will look when you find that person. If so, how do you describe this person? Is he/she tall, short, medium? What color hair does he/she have? What general body build does this person have? What other details can you give?

[JamesP81]

It’s discouraging to realize that looks seem to override all other factors for a guy to find a woman attractive.

That's not exactly true (see my post #80 for a long winded explanation). As I said in #80, a man needs to feel some physical attraction for his mate, even if it's only a little bit. I don't need much if she's the kind of person I want to be with. However, looks is the first thing men notice, for better or for worse. Most of us, once we get to know a woman, would gladly be with an average lady if she was the right one. The beauty queens might look good, but they aren't necessarily the ones you want to take home.

Actually, I find it a little more fun to be with an 'average' lady. Most average ladies are attractive enough to me. But I know how hard it is for them wondering if they are good looking enough to keep their men. Letting them know in no uncertain terms that you want them has got to be one of the biggest boosts you can give a person like that.

It’s also discouraging to hear you say that someone is “out of your league.”

Maybe it is discouraging, but I also believe it to be true. Let's face it. I'm not Brad Pitt. It'd be nice if I were, but it ain't happening. I don't have six pack abs (although, to be fair, I'm doing ok in other departments). I'm 5'10" and 215 lbs. That's about 20 pounds too many for me. I'm 25 and my hairline is receding at an alarming rate. And these are just the not so attractive things about me that I'm willing to publicly air; this is not an exhaustive listing. It's just the cold hard truth: bombshell hotties aren't going to be interested. But I don't mind saying that either because a comfortable lie is worse than the painful truth.

Being “not nice” is the number one turnoff for me in a man and if he is not nice then I am too good for him.

I think that's simply prudent and self-evident, although I'm not sure what you mean by nice. A lot of people think I'm a nice guy, and maybe I am but don't think I'm not a typical male either. I might be a nice guy, but I still like fast cars, action movies, guns, hunting, rock music, and generally anything with a high top speed and lots of horsepower. This description of the normal male doesn't fit into society's mold of 'nice' these days.

One more thing I’d say to the guys who are focused on looks (all of you?) is that a lot of average looking women can look pretty spectacular if they are dressed up, wearing makeup, and have their hair done.

Yes they can. I can think of a couple of examples. For that matter, I think that's true of most famous people who are thought to be good looking. The link at the end of your post proves that.

If you meet them at the hardware store wearing sweat pants with paint in their hair, they aren’t at their best!

Well, that can be hot too in its own way. At least for some women it can. This is going to sound weird; I'll notice an attractive woman first, but once I get to know her and get close to her, I feel fine seeing her in sweat pants after having worked all day. It's a sign of trust on her part; she doesn't have to put up an image around me. One of the big problems I have with dating (and the main reason I don't do it) is that you never get to know someone dating them because they're on their best behavior. You don't see the real person underneath, physically or otherwise. My best friend got married a year ago, and I don't see how they do it. They just became friends and then got married after dating for a while. I don't see how they could really know each other. This is going to sound weird, but I find it easier to be more attracted to women that I've been friends with when they've experienced something awful in their lives. I know how that sounds, but when someone goes through something it tends to tear away all the image and you get the real person. Then you see how they deal with adversity and you know who you really have. You see what kind of morality they really have, and what kind of character they have.

[JamesP81]

I don't really believe in this relationship caste system, but I admit that maybe I just don't want to believe this system exists. Maybe I'm just worried that I'm in such a low caste that I'll never find someone that I'll like.

Call me a pessimist if you like, but I am increasingly coming to believe that I am in a low enough 'caste' that I'm unlikely to find anyone that I could build a life with.

[darkangel82]

I’m beginning to think the same way.

[generally]

My unsolicited advice: Try not to be self-conscious about your receding hairline. The older you get and the older your age range of women get, the less significant it becomes. I have dated several guys with various degrees of baldness and my favorite was the most bald. He just had the “horseshoe” of hair left. A big factor in his attractiveness was that he was SO unselfconscious about his hair. It’s not just me, I know some incredibly attractive women who have fallen for “baldies.”

The 20 lbs. you could work on, but if you don’t, that’s not disastrous. Again, as you get older it becomes less and less of an issue. I like a man who is fit, but I’d rather date a guy with a few extra pounds than one who is self-absorbed about his looks and obsessed with working out. I work out, but there’s a point where too much becomes excessive.

When I said “nice” I didn’t mean metrosexual or anything like that. Guns, cars, hunting - all just fine. Speaking just for myself (though I think there are many women like me), I like action movies, but not gory stuff. Car chases are fine. Shootouts are fine. Gratuitous violence - yechh. I’d happily go with a guy to see something like Mission Impossible, or the Bourne Whatever. It would also be nice if he’d go to see a romantic comedy with me - doesn’t have to be sappy - in fact I hate tearjerkers where I just feel emotionally manipulated. At any rate, when I say nice, I mean someone who treats others as he wishes to be treated, someone who is courteous and considerate. I don’t mean someone who is into poetry and cats. I would be a little suspicious of a guy who was into poetry and cats unless it was in addition to some more “guy” interests.

One word of warning - If you meet someone at a terrible time in her life you also might not get to see the real her. It is easy to want to be the knight in shining armor and for her to want that. Be sure that there is something else going for you as a couple after the bad situation is gone. Be sure you don’t get used. That has happened to me - bailing out a guy who didn’t really love me, just wanted my money and emotional support - not a good scene.

I loved your last paragraph. I predict you are going to find someone one of these days, probably when you are not even really looking, and she is going to appreciate what a super guy you are. You sound like a real catch. Don’t shortchange yourself.

[JamesP81]

The 20 lbs. you could work on, but if you don’t, that’s not disastrous. Again, as you get older it becomes less and less of an issue. I like a man who is fit, but I’d rather date a guy with a few extra pounds than one who is self-absorbed about his looks and obsessed with working out.

To be fair, I do workout some. Karate classes twice a week, been doing it 9 years. It just doesn't seem to help the fact that I have to wear 36 x 34 blue jeans. Also, keep in mind that the things I listed are only the ones I feel like talking about; there are other things that would be problematic from an attractiveness standpoint that I don't discuss openly. Believe me, I really, really have my work cut out for me here.

I don’t mean someone who is into poetry and cats.

Always been more of a dog person. I'm into writing, but not poetry (I prefer prose of the scifi genre).

[WFTR]

Sunday Night Singles
Please freepmail DaveLoneRanger to be added / removed

---

We're having some thunder, and I haven't thought of any bonus questions. Rather than take a chance that I'll be without power and unable to post any ping, I'm going to ping without bonus questions.

The discussion hasn't been entirely sunshine and smiles, but I'm glad that we've been able to discuss these issues calmly. For some of us, these topics are difficult. As much as possible, I'd like people to be willing to hang with this topic for another day or two. I know that Dave wanted to discuss some of it, and I'd like him to have that chance.

If you have any ideas for future topics, please let us know.

Bill

[generally]

A few quotes that I really like -

A man falls in love through his eyes, a woman through her ears. - Woodrow Wyatt

The man who has never made a fool of himself in love will never be wise in love. - Theodor Reik

Life is short!
Break the rules!
Forgive quickly!
Kiss slowly! Love truly,
Laugh uncontrollably..
And never regret anything that made you smile.

An act of love that fails is just as much a part of the divine life as an act of love that succeeds, for love is measured by fullness, not by reception. - Harold Lokes

The greatest weakness of most humans is their hesitancy to tell others how much they love them while they’re still alive. - Orlando A. Battista

If you were going to die soon and had only one phone call you could make, who would you call and what would you say? And why are you waiting? - Stephen Levine

So......I hope maybe this inspires some of you out there to call someone tonight. It doesn’t have to be someone you think is your soul mate. Call Mom or Dad, brother or sister, college roommate, ...... or maybe someone you have just been too shy to call.

[GOP_Raider]

I’m here at work tonight, just got done listening to the Raider game. Wow, that was intense...can’t wait to see highlights of that one!!

[darkangel82]

@#!$% Browns blew it again.

[Nowhere Man]

@#!$% Browns blew it again.

I know the feeling even though I'm a Steeler's fan. From what I'm following, yuns are having a huge quarterback controversy where it is tough finding a good QB. I remember the trials the Browns havd from the time of Jake Plummer to now. We went through a similar time since Bradshaw retired until we got Rothlesberger (sp). I like our new coach though, he seems to be doing OK.

[Judith Anne]

What a great bunch of quotes.

My photo is on my screen name page—I think I’m going to get a face lift early next year...I don’t know how I look, never been able to decide.

Most important to me is humor, brains, being taller than me, and being financially stable (I am self-supporting, don’t want a pauper). Looks aren’t all that important, grooming is, though, and I generally like men who give physical evidence of a good level of testosterone. :D

I was happily married until my husband died, and I’d like to be, again.

Sounds like eharmony, doesn’t it. Some people must have success with them, but not me. Very few matches looked interesting, mostly because they were rarely able to find something to talk about. Of the two men I met, one was seriously sick, I could tell by looking at him, and the other rejected me—no “spark” (meaning, I guessed, that I was not physically appealing to him). Chance is likelier to bring me a new husband.

[Judith Anne]

PS, I’m a romantic, but not here. I hope I didn’t sound too...practical. But people are being very honest here, and that’s really interesting to me. :D

[Nowhere Man]

I haven’t had much to think about the topics with the death of Corky and starting to give the rest of the cats a bath. Still, I do have a few quick thoughts where although I’m not sure of the idea of a day for unmarried people, it seems like we are breaking up into small groups, I do understand the strife that causes a chasm between us and married people. Married people it seems have more leeway at work (although in my caase, my boss is easy to work with no matter what) because of kids and the like than single people. Single people have nees too, be it to take themelves to the doctor or whatever or their parents or if they have kids of their own plus there are times we do need “mental health days” too. With the loss of Corky and Boo (last month), believe me, I could use one. I even went to work a few hours after I lost Corky, some of my co-workers thought I was crazy. BTW, we laid Corky to rest, I feel a sense of closure although I’m still hurtin’.

[GOP_Raider]

Listening to that game when the Browns got a shot a 40 YD attempt I kept thinking “oh no, not again.” You hate to think of a game in week 3 as a “must win” game, but we were looking at being 0-4 going into our bye week. Next week @ Miami is going to be tough, we have never played very well there.

Sorry we had to end our 11 game losing against your Browns though. How long do you think until Quinn gets either a shot at starting or at least a lot of snaps?

[DollyCali]

Hi everyone.. I have had a LONG but good weekend.. The Indian’s won the division & then the Browns.....almost pulled one out of the hat

good to see you Nowhere Man. I know you miss Corky.

generally - love your quotes. good ones.

Ah, yes, the torture of being a Brown’s fan. BUT, at least is wasn’t downright embarrassing like the loss to Pittsburgh.. Seems like today was a pretty good match. I was rather glad to see the young coach have his first pro win,... however I wish it hadn’t been at the expense of the Browns.

I find myself drawn to a certain body type...... hair or no hair is not important.. being fit/in shape is, but not fanatical bout it. Someone who does natural workouts (hiking, biking etc) is preferable to me over the GYM workouts as those are things to do as a couple.. I am drawn to a man with good looks but am much more drawn to someone who is kind, intelligent & considerate ,,,those are more important

Eleanor, I had to laugh about your favorite toy being a kitchen item.. like others here, I was NOT surprised - you are a very good cook.

Lots to do here before I crash but did want to drop in & say hi to everyone. My mom is doing well, the cats okay & 2 dogs good. I still miss Cali a lot.. and always will. She was a big part of my life for 19 years.

[DollyCali]

I was hoping to see Quinn also but Derek has not done that bad a job..

It was a good game to watch

[DollyCali]

you are a very attractive lady Judith Anne.. gravity does take it’s toll however, doesn’t it? If I could afford it I would prolly opt for a lift.. (yea, I am THAT VAIN)

lol

[GOP_Raider]

Dolly! Long time no “see”, it’s good to see you’re back around.

I am at work today so I only got to listen to the game. Although last year iTunes started selling 15 minute highlight packages for every game, so I’ll have to download it onto my iPod tonight.