Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

immigration

Posted on 07/15/2006 6:57:53 AM PDT by grannylady

Illegals create a society and jobs in America for themselves.

It is all about supply and demand. 20 million illegals need food, clothing, cars, housing, medical facilities, jails, prisons, courts and polices and gang units, schools and teachers, social services, etc. The businesses that produce these things need to produce more for the illegals and jobs are created for them. Americans are not using more products and need illegals to fill jobs and do not need to produce for Americans. Beside creating jobs for themselves they are taking jobs from American citizens, especially Black Americans. Illegals benefit themselves and corporations by making them richer. Corporations benefit themselves and government by paying more taxes. Corporate America runs the government. The economy is good for corporations and not for Americans who are struggling. This result in great for corporations and government and the Americans people get screwed by lowering of their wages and their taxes goes to finance illegals needs and presence in this country. Illegals being low wage earners pay very little in taxes and most get the earn income tax break or pay no taxes. No illegals will not be sent back home because of anchor babies and if they are not babies and 16 years old they purposely have babies to secure their stay in America. This law has to be changed or no form of immigration reform will work. If not changed the borders will mean nothing. Pence, want to crate a “Ellis Island” in a joke. He say if the illegals leave the country, fill out papers and come back home in America it is not amnesty. Duh. Americans are not that stupid. Let them go home apply and wait their turn like everyone else. Send them home one by one with their babies (babies that were born to illegals at a cost to hospitals and American citizens) over a period of time. Maybe years. That is how they came and the economy they created will gradually disappear within society. American citizens do not want illegals immigration but “legal” immigration. God bless Hazelton, Pa and Sheriff Arpaio of Phoenix, AZ and all the others that hear the cry of the American people.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: aliens; braindead; immigration; newbie; noobboob
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 141-144 next last
To: MACVSOG68
"Seventh, any massive effort will take critical resources away from Homeland Security/WOT efforts with the Country, instead going after working immigrants posing no threat"


Illegal immigration, especially through the open Mexican borders is one of the biggest threats to our homeland security in this country
By sending these invaders home, and securing our borders we merely make this country that much safer.
We haven't even talked about the over $60 Billion worth of illegal drugs that these illegal immigrants keep bringing into our country through the Mexican border.
You want better Homeland Security, send these invaders home.

In addition, of course they are threat to this country, our jails are full of illegal immigrants who have committed every crime you can think of.
And the fact that we haven't caught someone yet, doesn't necessarily mean they haven't carried out any crime either.


"Eighth, if documentation past the SSN card and I-9 will be required, it must be part of a major package of legislation by Congress. If employers will be required to ensure that an employee is legal other than a SSN card and I-9, courts likely will reject them doing the government's work for it."

We don't need no Social Security cards for no illegals, and the US Senate's attempt to simply forgive illegals who have stolen American's id's, and carried out Social Security fraud by buying fake social security cards, is one of the most heinous parts of this Senate bill, given that even American citizens that carry out such crimes are charged in court and sent to jail.
No Social Security for illegals.


"Finally, without border security and other enforcement tools, this will never be done. To get them, a comprehensive package must be agreed upon, and that requires negotiation which so far, the Republicans have refused to do."

Listen.
We don't need a new bill to deport illegals, or even secure the borders or deal harshly with employers who employ illegals.
We have laws on the books for all that.
The House Bill will simply strengthen our hand and make enforcement considerably better and tougher. Meanwhile, congress has even allocated funds for extra border guards, which the Bush people have still not fully implemented.

But right now, what we need is the political will of this administration to deal with this problem.

"I cannot but believe that most voters will see this recalcitrance to engage in meaninful legislation "

Most voters don't want the Senate Bill. Period.
Its better to have no bill at all, and let the status quo remain that have that evil Senate Bill.
The Senate Bil is just like the 1986 Amnesty Bil which brought us to the mess we are in today.
61 posted on 07/16/2006 1:41:12 AM PDT by Jameison
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: Jameison
Most voters don't want the Senate Bill. Period.

I think this is where we started. So you disagree with the poll findings?

We will continue to disagree. You will speak out for what you want, and I will continue to do speak out for my side of it. I'm sure we will meet again on subsequent threads. Take care now.

62 posted on 07/16/2006 8:03:56 AM PDT by MACVSOG68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: Jameison
They are estimates. No one has exact figures.

As I have patiently explained to you before, the study performed by Bear Sterns, which is to the best of my knowledge the most comprehensive study of illegals and can be easily read, estimates a minimum of 20 million. I will go with that unless you have something better.

We don't have to. It's the normal straw man's argument. It's not a matter of rounding up 12/20 million or not rounding up anyone at all. You guys keep coming up with that nonsense. Look we never catch everyone who commits murder or robbery in this country. That doesn't mean we have just stopped trying to arrest them because we can't catch all of them, does it?

I suppose any argument against your proposal is a straw man. Anyway, part of your plan is to turn 5% of the Country into felons. That means a little more than you have thought out. It means we are able to concentrate on those who truly are posing a danger. To those on your side of the issue, they're all the same.

Police state? When did arresting people who shouldn't be in a country at all, and who have broken our laws, constitute that country becoming a "police state"? Where do you Mexicans keep coming up with this nonsense anyways? Why don't you tell that to the Mexican government that continues to terrorize illegal Guatemalan immigrants to Mexico?

I'm a Mexican? How on earth did you find out? Actually there are 3 or 4 whites left in the Country with some common sense about this issue. And yes, declaring 20 million illegals felons would require a police state, especially when the only way it will ever be successful is to mobilize the Reserves and National Guard. The 100k police in the Country won't really have too much success here.

Huh? Vietnam eh? /sarc on You mean like how Iraq is another Vietnam? /sarc off

Quit acting like a fool. Do you understand the concept of body count? No, I guess not. Ok, look in a history book. This will wind up a "body count" game, which leads into the low hanging fruit.

Listen, right now a greater percentage of criminal illegal immigrant drug runners, gang members etc, are being deported than illegal immigrants in general. When the right enforcement regime is instituted (harsh crackdown on employers of illegals, tough deportation regime, secure borders etc), all illegals are going to be affected, drug dealers or not.

Right, which takes us back to the police state concept. That's the only way you will meaningfully find and deport 5% of the Country.

These illegals are not exactly "underground" are they, when they keep demonstrating in full view of the public, and have the temerity to carry American flags upside down to boot.

So you simply stop all demonstrators and demand their citizenship papers? Ever heard of the 1st, 4th, 5th and 14th Amendments?

We'd chase the priest off if he pulled such a stupid stunt. You seem to be forgetting that most church goers in this country are Evangelical Christians who are strongly conservative, and strongly FOR enforcement of our immigration laws. The Republican Party gets most of the Evangelical Christian vote. Best luck to you finding churches to hold your 20 million illegals.

Many churches have already spoken out on this. And yes, they will help to provide food, medicine, shelter and other assistance to the illegals. Been reading the papers lately? Yes, I keep hearing about the fundies supporting the Republican Party. Not worried, they have no place else to go. But yes, I'm also aware of the reality of why the House won't create a win-win situation out of immigration, and instead worries about Terri Schiavo, flag and marriage amendments, sense of the Congress statements, etc., instead of doing their jobs.

Nope. We have been deporting illegals everyday without going through any court systems. All they have to do is stop that moronic catch and release policy they have been allowing to happen, which the President claims he is stoppingin his speech the other time.

Again, the change in status to felony will be challenged in court, and significantly complicate finding and deporting them. This is basically forcing them further underground.

Every week, another city, town, state, county enacts new, tougher anti-illegal immigrant laws. One police chief was on TV Friday, who is busy arresting every illegal immigrant he could get hold of, and sending them all the way to th Mexican border, because the INS people have not been doing their job.

First, this is an unfunded mandate. Catching a couple of illegals is cute. Going after 20 million is an abortion, and few police chiefs will carry the feds water for them. And more and more communities, not just the one or two I have read about will become safe havens. Many have already said so. Many will open their churches, their schools, their medical facilities, and laugh at the part of 4437 that charges people for aiding illegals. What do we want to do, create 50 million felons?

The illegal invaders of this country are going to have to be sent home or made to go home, one way or another, and the border secured.

Well, not sure how, because you are not going to get either authorization or funding if you won't compromise.

63 posted on 07/16/2006 12:55:14 PM PDT by MACVSOG68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: MACVSOG68
"As I have patiently explained to you before, the study performed by Bear Sterns, which is to the best of my knowledge the most comprehensive study of illegals and can be easily read, estimates a minimum of 20 million. I will go with that unless you have something better."

Still estimates.
No one knows exactly how many illegals are here.
We don't count 'em as they rush in through the bush at the Mexican border.
And my point still remains. 12 million or 20 million.
64 posted on 07/16/2006 1:01:27 PM PDT by Jameison
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: MACVSOG68
"I suppose any argument against your proposal is a straw man. Anyway, part of your plan is to turn 5% of the Country into felons."

They have already broken our laws just by being here.
No one is turning anyone into anything.
They did it all my themselves by choosing to ignore our laws.
We all have to live with the choices we make in life, and stop blaming others for our own screw ups.
Another thing, millions the American population have either been to prison before or are in jail right now.
We don't stop prosecuting criminals just because it would send the number of felons above a certain percentage do we?
Why do anything different for illegal foreign invaders?
65 posted on 07/16/2006 1:08:12 PM PDT by Jameison
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: MACVSOG68
"Actually there are 3 or 4 whites left in the Country with some common sense about this issue. "

Thanks heavens for small numbers.


"And yes, declaring 20 million illegals felons would require a police state, especially when the only way it will ever be successful is to mobilize the Reserves and National Guard."

Nope.
You don't know what a police state is.
I do.
I visited East Germany when the communists were in power.
I suggest you go visit North Korea today and see what a real police state is like.
66 posted on 07/16/2006 1:11:45 PM PDT by Jameison
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: Jameison
Illegal immigration, especially through the open Mexican borders is one of the biggest threats to our homeland security in this country

Nonsense. Have you read Holy War on the Home Front by Harvey Kushner? Almost all terrorists come into the Country legally. Most who go across the border come here either for economic reasons or to join families.

We haven't even talked about the over $60 Billion worth of illegal drugs that these illegal immigrants keep bringing into our country through the Mexican border.

Nothing I support prevents that. In fact, as I have told you, the border must be sealed first.

In addition, of course they are threat to this country, our jails are full of illegal immigrants who have committed every crime you can think of. And the fact that we haven't caught someone yet, doesn't necessarily mean they haven't carried out any crime either.

So we assume 20 million illegals are criminals too? Well, since you are making them felons, I guess you are rights. You really have no idea what a threat terrorism is to this Nation, do you? You are too wrapped up in deporting 20 million Mexicans, that terrorists can come later.

We don't need no Social Security cards for no illegals, and the US Senate's attempt to simply forgive illegals who have stolen American's id's, and carried out Social Security fraud by buying fake social security cards, is one of the most heinous parts of this Senate bill, given that even American citizens that carry out such crimes are charged in court and sent to jail. No Social Security for illegals.

So what's your plan for requiring employers, states, local governments, schools, etc to help the feds carry their water for them?

We don't need a new bill to deport illegals, or even secure the borders or deal harshly with employers who employ illegals. We have laws on the books for all that. The House Bill will simply strengthen our hand and make enforcement considerably better and tougher. Meanwhile, congress has even allocated funds for extra border guards, which the Bush people have still not fully implemented.

Well then that's good, because no bill will be passed, nor will any meaningful funding without a compromise. Glad your plan will work.

67 posted on 07/16/2006 1:12:03 PM PDT by MACVSOG68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: MACVSOG68
"Again, the change in status to felony will be challenged in court, and significantly complicate finding and deporting them. This is basically forcing them further underground"

# 1. I don't even know if that felony part of the House Bill is going to remain in the final bill that comes.

# 2. Illegals in this country can't go "further " underground , since they are not underground at all right now as we speak.
Their rabid demonstrations in April showed how much confidence they have in arrogantly and openly flouting our laws.
68 posted on 07/16/2006 1:16:01 PM PDT by Jameison
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: Jameison
We don't stop prosecuting criminals just because it would send the number of felons above a certain percentage do we? Why do anything different for illegal foreign invaders?

Heck, I didn't know rounding up 20 million illegals was that simple. But I hope you can do it without legislation.

69 posted on 07/16/2006 1:20:21 PM PDT by MACVSOG68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: MACVSOG68
"Many churches have already spoken out on this. And yes, they will help to provide food, medicine, shelter and other assistance to the illegals.Been reading the papers lately?"

I have.
And I don't see evangelicals or Christian fundamentalists coming out and shilling for illegals. And certainly haven't seen nowhere near enough churches shill for illegals to take in your 20 million illegals.
Sure we have had the normal tiny number of loony left "priest" spew out.
But then a lot of those same "priests" usually call President Bush Hitler as well.
The are not very irrelevant.
70 posted on 07/16/2006 1:22:52 PM PDT by Jameison
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: Jameison
# 1. I don't even know if that felony part of the House Bill is going to remain in the final bill that comes.

Well, it's there now, and I didn't realize the House Republicans were going to reconsider 4437? Obviously if they ever meet in conference, it will not survive.

# 2. Illegals in this country can't go "further " underground , since they are not underground at all right now as we speak. Their rabid demonstrations in April showed how much confidence they have in arrogantly and openly flouting our laws.

You may want to think about what assimilation is. The best part of our military ground forces cannot find either Mullah Omar or UBL. The reason is because they have the support of the local populace and are well assimilated. That is one reason it will be difficult if not impossible to find any but the most vulnerable, those with families, essentially the low hanging fruit.

71 posted on 07/16/2006 1:25:13 PM PDT by MACVSOG68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: Jameison
The are not very irrelevant.

I agree, which is what my point was.

72 posted on 07/16/2006 1:26:57 PM PDT by MACVSOG68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: MACVSOG68
"First, this is an unfunded mandate."

The cities, states, counties that have instituted tough new regimes against ilegals are funding it themselves, to counter lackluster efforts from the Feds.
You see they are looking at the huge savings they are getting from all the money they now don't have to spend on the health, education etc of illegals.

" Catching a couple of illegals is cute. Going after 20 million is an abortion, and few police chiefs will carry the feds water for them."

Every county, city, state, have local law enforcement.
That adds up to a huge army to use against the illegals.
And these law enforcement people actually know theitr towns.
You should see the tough on llegals police chiefs that have been appearing on Cavutto recently.

" And more and more communities, not just the one or two I have read about will become safe havens. Many have already said so."

Keep right on dreaming
Most town in America are not San Francisco, and there is a post o this borad just today about how San rancisco is goimng broke.
Helping illegals to break the law can affect your bank account.


" Many will open their churches, their schools, their medical facilities, and laugh at the part of 4437 that charges people for aiding illegals."

Again, most churches are very conservative, and strongly agisnt illegals.
Cities that laugh at Federal laws, could find their Federal government funds cut off.
They might not be laughing for too long.
But hey keep right on dreaming.



"What do we want to do, create 50 million felons?"

Its now 50 million is it?
Now why don't we make it a nice 100 million and be done with it.
That sounds like a nice rounded figure. :)
73 posted on 07/16/2006 1:36:43 PM PDT by Jameison
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: MACVSOG68
"Well, not sure how, because you are not going to get either authorization or funding if you won't compromise"

Again, we don't need new bills to deport anyone, or crack down on anyone who employs illegals.
We have laws on the books for all that.
All we need is the political will.
NO bill is far better than the Senate bill.
74 posted on 07/16/2006 1:39:38 PM PDT by Jameison
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: MACVSOG68
"So we assume 20 million illegals are criminals too? "

Nope.
But lots of them are.
But its an analogy.
We don't stop trying to catch criminals just because we can't watch 100% of criminals.
Its not a "deport all 12 million" or "deport 0" option.
Get it?


"Well, since you are making them felons, I guess you are rights. "

Read above.

"You really have no idea what a threat terrorism is to this Nation, do you? "


You'd be surprised.
I am wiling to bet I know quite a bit more about about terrorism and terrisitsrist than you do.

"You are too wrapped up in deporting 20 million Mexicans, that terrorists can come later"

Wrong.
Again. Normal straw man's argument. The 2 are not mutually exclusive. More than that, they are intertwined. Easiest way for terrorists to enter this country without our government having any idea that they are here is through the open borders.
75 posted on 07/16/2006 1:49:30 PM PDT by Jameison
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: MACVSOG68
"Heck, I didn't know rounding up 20 million illegals was that simple."

Neither simple nor easy.
Can it be done with enough determination, political will, enough brain power, resources etc put into it?
Yes.
Does it mean every single one of the 12 million have to be deported before its a success?
Nope.
That has never been the way we measure success in any policing work in this country.
76 posted on 07/16/2006 1:55:54 PM PDT by Jameison
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: Jameison
Its now 50 million is it?

Nope, hit the wrong key. My mistake. Still, hopefully it's only 20 million.

77 posted on 07/16/2006 2:00:05 PM PDT by MACVSOG68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: Jameison
NO bill is far better than the Senate bill.

Well, that's what ya got. So good luck.

78 posted on 07/16/2006 2:01:07 PM PDT by MACVSOG68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: Jameison
Nope. But lots of them are. But its an analogy. We don't stop trying to catch criminals just because we can't watch 100% of criminals. Its not a "deport all 12 million" or "deport 0" option. Get it?

Actually no I don't. Your bill presumes that we can end illegal immigration and deport those here. Are you suggesting this bill won't actually do that? Will we pick and choose which felons we go after?

You'd be surprised. I am wiling to bet I know quite a bit more about about terrorism and terrisitsrist than you do.

Considering what I've read so far, yes I'd be dramatically surprised. Because most I have run into who actually understand the mission, history and goals of the Islamic Brotherhood somehow consider them to be the greatest threat to this Country.

Again. Normal straw man's argument. The 2 are not mutually exclusive. More than that, they are intertwined. Easiest way for terrorists to enter this country without our government having any idea that they are here is through the open borders.

Again, though you claim expertise in terrorism, you seem oblivious to the fact that few if any come into this Country across the Mexican border. Almost all come in with visas. But then since you know a lot more about it than do I, you already knew that.

79 posted on 07/16/2006 2:08:38 PM PDT by MACVSOG68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: Jameison
Neither simple nor easy. Can it be done with enough determination, political will, enough brain power, resources etc put into it? Yes.

And by refusing to negotiate with half of Congress, where do you suppose this determination and political will will come from? You will have to do it with current resources and current procedures and laws. You seem to think that the red state conservative congressmen run Congress. They don't. They are part of it, and all the wailing will not change that.

I along with most Americans want comprehensive immigration reform that recognizes that no one is going to seriously catch and send back 20 million illegals. The President understands that. You guys will prevent any meaningful legislation, thereby assuring that the problem only compounds. Apparently this will take a whole new Congress which may take years.

That has never been the way we measure success in any policing work in this country.

Actually, all police forces have measures of success, whether you want to call them quotas on tickets, prosecutions, number of arrests for prostitution, etc. It exists, and most know it. This will be no different. "Body Count".

80 posted on 07/16/2006 2:18:51 PM PDT by MACVSOG68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 141-144 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson