The ***OFFICIAL*** Weekend Singles' Thread -- Dear Abby/Dolly (June 2-4, 2006)

DollyCali & all the SUPER singles at FR | June 2, 2006 | Dear Abby/Dolly

[DollyCali]

Welcome
to
Counseling

Dear Abby/Dolly will be a 3-4 times a year part of our Weekend singles Thread. Questions will come from YOU. Answers will come from Me… and you on the thread. Please kick in with your thoughts, disagreements, and personal stories. We can learn from each other.. And now.. ON WITH THE SHOW!

Whew.. There are a boat load of questions & “situations” here which I will try to address.

Good mental health involves being comfortable in one’s skin (even if it is less than perfect, ugly, repulsive, fat, skinny, deformed). Take a look at drop dead BEAUTIFUL models & actresses who just think the very same thing you do. Also take a look at some very unattractive people in life who are successful & very happily married. .

Low self esteem can be very complex. The REAL you.. is what real attraction SHOULD be about. Everything you mentioned you don’t like, COULD be changed and improved upon perhaps. (I wouldn’t recommend MAJOR efforts here initially). I would recommend changing how you look at these things. Easier said than done. There are self esteem support groups that are free & beneficial if you REALLY make a goal of working at it.

Unfortunately our society & media & advertising has sold us a bill of goods about what “attractive” is.. We all unfortunately buy into it. Playboy. - People - Cosmo magazines do well don’t they? A magazine featuring below average or UGLY people would NOT do as well. .

A person who will reject you for these things will NOT be a good partner. Sometimes that is the beauty of the NOW Internet. It often affords people, weeks, months and longer to get acquainted & know, like & yes, LOVE the person.. before seeing the body, hair, face etc.. Youth & maturity don’t always go hand in hand. So many first relationships & marriages fail because people are attracted for the wrong reasons! Think of all the high school cheerleaders & football players along the way. .

I am guilty of being attracted to attractive also.. I truly don’t know of anyone who has a goal to find the homeliest partner possible do you? But men I have cared deeply about(yes even loved) and truly respected are usually NOT the lookers in life. Men & women both who are overly attractive sometimes have different baggage. It is a toss up. .

Now what can you do along the way (in addition to the support group)? EXERCISE & EAT PROPERLY.. that might help get your body slimmer, firmer, shapelier. Swimming & heavy duty hiking are two ways to accomplish this but have the ADDED dimension that they give you “process time”. When one works out (I call it play) you kick in a set of chemicals that help you look at things more objectively. You also work off stress & tensions in life. .

Have your hair analyzed by a pro. If $$ are limited go to the nearest beauty college(much reduced rates),They use advanced students but ALWAYS under the guidance of long term pros. Some flattering cutting & highlights will give you a lift. .

SMILE.. I have found that often when I see someone with a BIG smile, I forget what they look like.. I remember them as happy-- not ugly/pretty. Don’t notice their skin color or race even at much. Know what I mean? .

Sometimes folks with low self esteem, tend to scowl & be dour in presentation. Talk about UGLY! Keep in mind that your self image will be self fulfilling in the persona you imagine.. The energy will be transferred. Confidence glows (and too much stinks BTW) .

Now the last point for discussion here is the toughest & only you can reflect & perhaps fix. Are YOU on purpose NOT doing all you can in a self sabotage effort (subconscious of course). ? Fear of intimacy will manifest itself in many ways. Outward hostility, indifference toward people who “come on “ to you & the physical” letting one self “go” (gain weight, let hair become unkempt, poor hygiene, crummy dress). This is a very common situation is married couples. To avoid sexual contact they do this. Men in early stages of prostate problems have a fear of intimacy not wanting to be embarrassed if they can’t perform & some women are playing back “old tapes” from before they can even consciously recall.. about All MEN are animals.. just want one thing!”.. It happens very subtly. The bottom line is that all this is NOT done consciously.

See previous question/answer in part. . I guess I would ask the reason for considering doing this? Again is it to fit a mold/image of beauty/youth? To attract someone special you have your eye on? Robert Redford & many other stars have said “NO” to these things.. but look at Elizabeth Taylor.. does she look 74? Are you just not happy again – IN YOUR SKIN?

This is a very personal & important question. For some folks correcting a “hideous” nose, getting those Dumbo ears flat, or taking care of some major “flaw” as they perceive it, removing scars from burning… and it can be a major improvement not only physically, but emotionally & mentally. It. makes all the difference in the way as to how they perceive themselves & thus the image they project.

Again you will project what your self image is. Very few people will like or be attracted to a person who does not like themselves. I don’t fault folks who can afford the procedures & aren’t compulsive regarding the appearance.

I have a family member who gets cosmetic procedures done several times a year. She is fanatic about youth. Her husband is VERY handsome & I think she is really afraid of losing him. She isn’t the smartest cookie in the jar & so I suppose she feels this is essential. I think the money would be better spent taking some enrichment classes at a junior college.. but that is just ME.

Fidelity is a choice. It is a harder choice for some than others. There are reasons why people can & cannot easily be faithful. OLD TAPES is one consideration. Children whose parents had infidelity in the past might NOT like that fact.. but they will often adopt that subconscious value. .. ala.. well, dad is /was a good guy, even though. Etc.

A moral grounding & religious set of values will determine how one will adjust. The Judeo-Christian Ethic of Monogamy profoundly affects & guides many in life.. BUT, alas ones who REJECT God & Religion will not have that value structure as boundaries. .

The definition of what you think “happy” is. You may have again (old tapes) seen your parents or other adults in less than happy “committed” situations & again subconsciously said.. woe, not for me. .

A committed relationship / for better or for worse is VERY hard work. If one is selfish along the way..IT WILL BE VERY DIFFICULT. .

A Happy Couple & Being Selfish do NOT GO TOGETHER.

Maturity & learning what you REALLY want is important. If sharing life & its goals & dreams with a partner is appealing to a person, they will have an easier time.. Having Children & growing old with a loving partner is an ideal that is hard to accomplish for the self centered individual. If your parents made you think the world revolved around you, you will expect your partner to be the same. You must get LOTS of attention & need & demand it. .

Very few women will do this after the intial “flurry of courtship” & thus men will see more women to give them the emotional & mental strokes they need. Normally early in a relationship on will have the other party be the “center”. In time that changes.. that is often the time the man realizes “gee, I just can’t be happy with just this ONE woman” .

Get it?. .

The playboy, non-committed, take & don’t reciprocate mentality is presented as attractive but basically the people I have known & read about are quite lonely. They are busy & social but that does not mean they are NOT lonely. .

You can be in a room or party with dozens of people & be very alone and yes VERY lonely. .

My suggestion is for you to deeply analyze your core values. .The fact that you are questioning indicates a good thing. This is what Mid-Life is all about. Most people just ooze into adult hood adopting the religious, social, ethical & moral values of their family/parents. That MAY or may NOT be good. Midlife is when you examine all of this & either except it as your own, modify it Or reject it totally. What you then CHOSE is the new you & you are now authentic. You may in fact draw back to most of values of the family of origin. A crisis doesn’t always happen. Ideally this will happen in your mid 30s. Some go to their grave never doing this.. they are always a bit “stirred up in their soul” and aren’t sure why. Part of them feels guilty to question the family values & structure.. (mom’s guilt 101?) .

I think you need to restate your question.. Why do I choose women who are deceitful? Or gossip? .

Many women could write the same question, no doubt. .

I basically don’t think women lie anymore than I think men do. Some do, some don’t. People lie basically for different reasons.. one reason is..when they have low self esteem & they try to portray that they are “better”, have done more, know important people.. etc. .

People often lie for attention.. they become victims, have pity parties, .

Again being comfortable with who you are & in your skin as I like to say. .

Try to find people with good self esteem.. DON’T get involved romantically too quickly with someone before you know them well. Men & women both make the mistake of going hot & heavy in the physical relationship (love those hormones) before they know very much about the person. .

Some will lie to cover up something embarrassing from their past. . On a first meeting or date we normally don’t sit down & put the worse possible foot forward & drag out all the dirty laundry. As you get acquainted you then often don’t want to muddy the water.. Ah, the sins of omission in relationships huh?

We all need to strive to be honest about who we are, our shortcomings & find people who will accept who we are. . I love reading FReeper Profiles. Some in their profile mention they have been in jail /prison. How refreshing. HONESTY that is embarrassing. It is very important that you share pertinent info on medical problems that will affect your life. Do you have AIDS, Herpes, diabetes, MS.. ??? None of these have to be relationship killers, but it is so good to early on find out if you are loved & accepted for the real you. Bad news as well as good news.

I have found two areas where men try to impress (and I am sure women do this also). They find out your interests etc & show you how good they are at the skill etc. I have a background in theology & also am a REAL outdoorsy person. It takes about 10 minutes in the woods to know if I am with someone who has been honest or not. I don’t reject the person if they are not a mountain goat.. but certain things cannot be fudged. Also getting into religious discussions.. well, wont belabor.. but DON’T pretend you are something you aren’t. Unless the person you are dealing with has the IQ of a slinky, they will find you out very quickly. .

In my experience people, men & women, who gossip are those needing attention. By giving you “juicy tidbits” they are in their minds vital & important in what they are stating. In some respects they will gossip(some truth some maybe not) to make themselves look good/better. By telling all the bad things about John Doe, don’t I look better to you???? People who gossip or tell “tall tales” often have parents who are the same. It is hard work to overcome this.

Even though this is directed at understanding the other person, take it to heart & examine if this might apply to you? Tall tales & Gossip are not good couple strengthening material. .

. Well, I am not sure I saw a question there but maybe a statement & sigh????

So I will share some misc. thoughts on the topic. So many share the struggle with parents.

Part of this maybe means they did their job well? Give em roots BUT give em wings etc? . Part of their mentality MIGHT just be to keep you crazy so you don’t desire to live with them until you are 40?

Okay, now to look a bit more deeply & seriously.

There are two sad situations.(1) Kids(of any age..- kids can be 60 & parents 80) who strongly dislike each other – don’t speak, have heated regular disagreements… and the second scenario,,,(2) kids/parents who can’t cut the umbilical cord. Mommy’s boy? Parents NEEDING kids to be their best friends. Bad boundaries make for bad parenting. Period.

Good mental health in the parents will HELP insure good mental health on the part of the kids. If the parents are paddling with just one oar in the lake. Chances are the kids might also.

Needy dependent parents will raise kids that are the same. Selfish parents will raise kids that often feel rejected. Parents who feel they “missed out on life” because of you will often reflect it in their relation to you. Were you born out of wedlock, were you the last child (when they thought they were done 10 years prior), were they very poor ? Was their marriage rocky? Is dad not married to your mom? Not good reasons for rejecting a child, but reasons.

Just because they are your parents does NOT mean they are more mature, giving & nurturing than you are.

One thing you must look at carefully. Often children(again any age) with parents they don’t get along with.. Subconsciously are always trying to please them..(the co-dependent kicking in), When they try to be cordial & tell of the things they do to please them, they are again disappointed to be kicked in the face.

Some parents will never be pleased by what you do, who you marry, the amount of money you make, the clothes you wear, the way you cook – and alas, the air you breath. There simply is NO pleasing them..

Other parents can sire Jack the Ripper & you would think he is ready for sainthood. Taint fair for sure!

Once you leave the nest, you have the option to be with who fulfills your life. It may or may not include parents or any relative,. Some chose locales to live quite far away for that reason.

Part of the midlife process is the analyzing of parents & your relation to them. This is often when repressed events of child/sexual abuse manifest. What you need to understand is WHY you feel the way you do towards your parents. Many parents have a very difficult time letting go of their children. This is especially true of moms.. the nurturing instinct is strong on the X chromosome .(that is why so many get & bond tightly with dogs/cats when they are empty nesters). A parent who can develop healthy boundaries with their children is a gift.. a treasure. Being there when wanted but in general MYOB mentality.

Some fathers are very controlling & critical of their sons.. scars that can last a lifetime are the gifts from dad. Some mom’s are very jealous of their daughters & the relationship they have with their dads(and THEIR hubbys).. that can be a life long struggle.

It is important to realize that so much we do & experience is subconscious. I truly believe there are few if any parents who want to be BAD parents. We each enter parenthood with the “teaching” from our own parents.. (HORRORS). We swear we will never be like mom/dad or do or say the things they do.. but alas, one day you look in the mirror of life &: realize that mom &/or dad falls out of your mouth & life.

For those with hostile & estranged parental relations, family get-togethers can be nightmares.. I always feel for those who are in these difficult situations.

But each situation is different & the best guideline is to be cordial, return hate with smiles, bad statements with warm ones. Disarm them. You won’t change them. You will NOT feel good about yourself or the situation by “telling them off”.

Sometimes permanent separations are necessary. Tragic but one cannot let their life & that of their spouse/kids be in turmoil over parents who are ornery. Respecting ones parents does NOT permit them to abuse you. Just be careful to make sure what is what.

This was a difficult question in many ways. One wants to love & bond with their parents. Some parents just make it doggone hard, don’t they?

YOUR TURN

[WFTR]

The Pungo 140 is a 14-footer, but I have a truck with a rack. In many ways, I wish I could put the boat completely inside a vehicle, but the rack works. I think the Pungo 140 weighs about 55 pounds. It can be awkward, but 55 pounds isn't a problem for a guy.

Bill

[AFPhys]

I really like your "once a week" discussion here.

One other item: I believe that men are much more capable of separating their emotional responses. I am able to be extremely angry about something you've done, but that does not necessarily mean I'm not extremely in love with you, and I'll usually say that. But unless that is really understood and believed, "lack of communication" even becomes false communication.

During such a discussion, "I really like like ..." sounds great and best, also, however it has to be recognized that people don't always use the words they would like to, and great latitude has to be given to try to discover the loving thoughts behind the words used instead of nitpicking them. Looking at things through "rose-colored glasses" can help a whole lot.

[GOP_Raider]

Lyle Alzado, of the Oakland Raiders, was a force to be reckoned with until the steroids finally destroyed his brain.

I was a pretty young kid when Lyle died, but when he was going through all of his brain cancer treatment, and looking frail and sickly. If that won't humble a man, I would sure hate to see what would.

[trussell]

I thought it was beautiful, and fit right in with the optical illusion concept. :)

I don't know who the artist is on any of them, but I am Glad it was enjoyed.

[snugs]

I agree that definitely on the abuse issue that it does follow a pattern a women who has an alcoholic parent will often marry an alcoholic.

I think it works in physical, mental and emotional abuse as well, often one feels comfortable with what ones knows.

I was coming from the premise of why does a "nice" girl from a "nice" family go for a bully abusive man which was where I was basing my answer on.

Peer pressure and what we are exposed to from the media and in particular teen magazines I feel have a very bad influence on the type of people that youngsters get linked with and also their attitude to relationships and of course sex.

Often the type of people we mix with as youngsters shape our life for the future so as the more permissive youngsters become older they become more permissive middleaged and older generation. Maybe one of the reasons we are now seeing so much infidelity and destruction of family life.

TV then portrays this as the norm in many soap operas hence there is no shame or sense that you have done wrong as this is just normal behavioiur. Tremendous pressure is heaped upon Christians as well when this is being fed to them continuously.

I can understand why for many years a lot of the more stricter Christian dominations either did not have TVs or were very restrictive in what they watched and allowed their children to watch. This of course is no longer happening with more "liberal" views in the main stream churches filtering down to the stricter churches and youngsters pressurizing parents that if they do not confirm and be allowed to watch and do what other at school/college do they will be ostracized and often bullied.

Standards all round have dropped so along with those who come from abusive backgrounds I think adds up to why women and men are making these choices.

Thoughts anyone.

[snugs]

The excite of the chase as well. Once the prize is won you do not have to put all that effort in to win it IMHO is why attitudes of men change to women in private after marriage.

Before marriage they often do things once they are married they would not dream of doing after all she is my wife now and "should" not expect this to be done or I do not need to give her flowers on a Friday anymore.

What men often forget the reasons that women responded in a certain way was partly because how they treated them, bringing the best out in their lady often because they were treated special they felt safe and able to relax and be themselves. So the man thinks the woman has changed after marriage as much as the women thinks the man has. It is a vicious circle and I wonder if it is more a major contribution to the break down of marriages than people realise.

[DollyCali]

.

Early Ping. Going to dinner & movie with friend (yes, a date!). Seeing movie “Water”. Anyone else see it? Will be back tonight.

Housekeeping:

I have the next round of teams in the “first draft” stage. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO co-host a thread in next 3 months please post publicly or e or FR mail me.



We are in process of developing some guidelines for the singles thread. Have already received a few thoughts etc. Any one else feel free to FReepmail, email or post here. I know it shouldn’t be necessary but we want to avoid any further complications & misunderstandings that lead to people leaving us voluntarily or being banned!

Neither is desirable.

This thread is a social thread of friendship of all ages with folks who come & go as they can during the weekend. Most are single, some are not. This thread is to supplement life, not BE or replace LIFE ~~ If you get the gist.

The Raven introduced something on another thread which I have adopted for our site. The FRAPPR (part of Google) Map Locator. We have our own site! You Sign up with your screen name (recommended so we know who you are). When you log in it is easy as your sign in name is your email & you must remember your password

NOTE: I must okay entries. We want to keep this clear of trolls & other non participants. Also I will not register anyone who that day registers for FR. IF they are relatively new I will check their posting record. Just so you know, anyone can contact you via the FRappr mail (like FReepmail) . I have had a couple men wanting to get “acquainted”. I told them to come to the Singles thread & I & everyone else would meet them. One was 20 years younger & from Iran…gee, I wonder what he wanted??? HA!

FRAPPR SITE

[MissAmericanPie]

Hon, if God couldn't find ten good men in Sodom what do you think our chances are given this day and age? j/k

Men hurt just as much or more during a breakup. They try to hide it better and sleep a lot, trying to sleep through the roughest part, or live in dreams what they wish were true in life.

Some men are much more fraigile than women believe they are. Much more committed to a relationship, even if it's not perfect. I would imagine far more women file for a divorce than men.

I am a woman, but I relate to men better than my peers. I have seen great guys married to the most miserable, self centered little twits. These gals put the repsonsibility for their happiness on their partner, making them jump through hoop after hoop trying to get it right. Only to find that they can never get it right because she is determined to make the task of making them happy as impossible as finding the "Holy Grail".

They marry a plumber then want a mansion, a BMW, and a maid and he better dang well get it for them.

Sorry for the rant, but I have seen so many great guys in such miserable situations that I have to let fly now and then.

[MissAmericanPie]

Hon, if God couldn't find ten good men in Sodom what do you think our chances are given this day and age? j/k

Men hurt just as much or more during a breakup. They try to hide it better and sleep a lot, trying to sleep through the roughest part, or live in dreams what they wish were true in life.

Some men are much more fraigile than women believe they are. Much more committed to a relationship, even if it's not perfect. I would imagine far more women file for a divorce than men.

I am a woman, but I relate to men better than my peers. I have seen great guys married to the most miserable, self centered little twits. These gals put the repsonsibility for their happiness on their partner, making them jump through hoop after hoop trying to get it right. Only to find that they can never get it right because she is determined to make the task of making them happy as impossible as finding the "Holy Grail".

They marry a plumber then want a mansion, a BMW, and a maid and he better dang well get it for them.

Sorry for the rant, but I have seen so many great guys in such miserable situations that I have to let fly now and then.

[snugs]

It makes me cringe sometimes when I hear women at work say that there partner had better do this and that this weekend or there was going to be trouble.

Also the moaning because he wanted to go to soccer training and play on the Saturday/Sunday but forget that they must go the gym 3 times a week and that they expect the food on the table when they get back from the gym despite the fact hubby has worked all day and they only did a half day.

Women want a strong protector and wonder why the man they marry/live with has turned into metro-sexual but with the above hamstringing their masculinity is it surprising.

End of my rant - see what you did to me. :0)

I also get on with men better than women especially work wise - would struggle to work directly for a woman.

[MissAmericanPie]

I have pretty much decided that there are two groups of people, caring, and caring about themselves. It's a wonder when two caring types meet up.

I had that with my darling husband, we were pals, mates, best friends, and very attracted to each other. I would never dream of going to the kitchen and making myself a snack without asking if he wanted something. He would never dream of a day going by that he didn't kiss me, call me beautiful, and tell me how much he loved me.

He passed away Aug. 8, 2004. It's only this past week, after the gals at work got on my case, that I have come out of black mourning and begun to wear clothes with color in them again. But for some reason, and I have heard this from other widows, the second year is the hardest. It really is. But I'm coming along, stopped lying to myself that he was on a hunting or fishing trip and would be home soon.

I thank God for every day I had with him, and for finding that rare perfect relationship. Painful as it has been I had rather have had it and lost it, than never experienced it. Don't sit at home wishing, get out there and mix it up. Keep looking, if your looking, never give up. That perfect person is looking for you too.

[snugs]

Sorry for your loss but it as you say you have the great memories.

God Bless you and hope that now you beginning to accept the loss you will start to heal.

[pcottraux]

Anyone here?

[rzeznikj at stout]

(turns down the TV)

What?

Oh, here? Yah, I'm here...

[snugs]

Me too

[pcottraux]

That makes three.

[rzeznikj at stout]

That it does...

[WFTR]

I think there's too much conformity and too much "herd instinct" throughout our society. While TV may feed that conformity, I don't think that TV is the cause of the problem. I watched a great deal of TV when I was a child and a teenager. When I left home for college, I almost never watched TV again. I watched when I was visiting my parents, but I didn't own a TV of my own until I was 38 years old. At times, I've watched quite a bit of TV. At other times, I just don't bother to turn it on.

Even in stricter church groups, too much conformity becomes a problem. People become involved in the "group think" aspects of their fellowship, and they really don't have any basis in themselves for what they believe. If they end up running afoul of the group, they suddenly find themselves on the outside with no substance in their own personality to sustain them. Often, the issues which divide them from the group are not major moral or religious stands but just petty personality squabbles that are unavoidable in any group of people.

The other side of the equation is that there's danger in being too far outside of all groups. I've never really fit anywhere, and the inability to fit has made things more difficult for me personally. I'd be better off if I were a little better fit, but I wouldn't want to be so much a part of some group that I wasn't a voice against too much conformity. I wish more people had the ability to see outside their own little group thought processes.

As you pointed out, there's a conformity problem in the more mainstream society as well. For instance, we're all supposed to believe that "education" is the solution to every problem. I remember a friend arguing that we need sex education that teaches "biology without judgment." I told him that the problem with teaching "biology without judgment" is that this teaching leads too many people to practice biology without judgment. A third friend who was listening to the argument thought that I'd scored a funny point, but he still saw me as being a little too far outside the mainstream. While I'm no longer quite as strict about things as I was in my church days, I still believe that people should exercise a great deal of judgment before practicing any kind of biology. The good news is that even mainstream society has come around more to the idea of exercising some judgment.

Bill

[snugs]

I do not think that TV is the actual cause of the problem but tends to make people think that bad behaviour is OK and also gives the impression that everyone is doing it.

This is just another extra pressure on people to conform and in my experience probably the most powerful since certainly in UK most children over about 5 have a TV set in their bedrooms.

[rzeznikj at stout]

Dead Thread Ping

You know what to do gang...8^)