Posted on 04/18/2006 2:53:19 PM PDT by zaxxon
One of the two Duke University lacrosse players arrested on charges of raping and kidnapping a 27-year-old woman at an off-campus party had been arrested in the fall for assaulting a man in Washington, D.C., and the other was not present when the alleged crime occurred, sources told ABC News.
Multiple sources told ABC News that Reade Seligmann, 20, was not present in the house at the time the alleged victim says the crime occurred. Sources say this is established through different witness accounts, as well as cell phone and credit-card records.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
Yeah, like I said, it's not my theory.Nifong seems like an overly ambitious incompetent to me.I think the idea being floated was that Nifong probably realizes as does everybody with a room temperature IQ outside of Durham except Jesse Jackson (who knows a little about the sexual exploitation of young black women & therefore considers himself something of an expert on the subject now, evidently) that the accuser is not credible (changing ID's from week to week) & just decided to indict her latest ID's knowing that there was no evidence. But I'm not terribly convinced as you are that these guys,if they are innocent, are going to be tarnished forever. More & more, this case is reminding me not of the Kobe Bryant debacle as most people are saying, but of the false gang rape accusation (also by a 'dancer/escort/ho') against Dallas Cowboy Emmitt Smith years ago. The Nancy Grace crowd was all ready to fire up the electric chair for ol' Emmitt until the accuser's story began to look like the bogus shakedown it turned out to be. Nobody even remembers that today & his reputation hasn't suffered.(Although I bet his mama is still hopping mad about it.)
I think a lot of these guys will be permanently tarnished as well as Duke and here's why:
The way I see this playing out is that the prosecution goes forward and either volutarily dismisses the charges when the evidence of alibis becomes overwhelming, or it goes all the way to a jury trial and the jury returns a verdict of not guilty.
The jury verdict, by its terms, would only be a conclusion that these particular guys did not commit the crime charged.
While all of the evidence we at FR are analyzing now that makes her claim questionable will be brought at the trial, nevertheless there will be many, many people who will continue to believe that the accuser was raped at the party, because they want so much to believe her. Their story will be that the accuser was simply too drugged or beaten down to pick out the right guys, and the real rapists got away scot-free. This will be the line from the race hustlers and feminists and amplified in the MSM.
There will never be a successful prosecution against her for falsely claiming rape, so even after the dust settles it will be much as it is now, with one block of people convinced she made it up and another block of people continuing to believe her, with the latter storyline being what comes out the MSM for the most part.
And Duke will be permanently damaged because there will be families who do not want to send their kids to college in a place where the local criminal authorities are willing to persecute the Duke students solely for being privileged.
Via astral projection, perhaps?
Yeah, they'll have to keep trying until they find someone who can't prove themselves innocent.
I think you are right. Legal expenses alone will ruin these people.
Good point about Duke. I do think a lot of people will think twice about sending their kids there. I'm wondering if even the Duke TIP (talent identification program?) for 7th graders will suffer? Everybody in my family did that (none of us actually attended for college though). I always thought it was a great deal for the university - they got to see high achieving kids early on & try to get them to think about Duke as a possible college. The kids got a "grownup" trip on their own. And to my knowledge they're the only school that does that. Somehow, I don't think the program will have the same appeal to folks after seeing the school administration throw their own students into the bonfire of the vanities-style wolfpack feeding frenzy there, particularly given how shaky this woman's credibility has been up to this point.
There IS an alternative. She could fess up.
Not saying that's even remotely likely, but if it's proven one or both of these young men COULDN'T POSSIBLY even have been there, it might at least make her pause to consider.
If these kids are innocent they better prove it beyond doubt because even a not guilty verdict will be followed with one huge civil suit in front of a specially designed jury pool.
If it goes to trial, a big if, the best the accused can hope for is a jury hung along racial lines. The polarization is very great here, and about half of the jury pool has already convicted the accused based on their race and their parent's wealth.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1616934/posts?page=1370#1370
That was me. I still think it is plausible.
All of your information actually bolsters my initial theory. Nifong is punted this to the GJ and put the onus on them to return a bill. Once this was accomplished, discovery begins shortly thereafter, and if it is clear she is lying, then Crystal Mangum takes the fall, not Nifong. That said, he acted like a sideshow spectacle at the beginning of this with his public declarations and his 70+ media interviews.
I'm not claiming that Nifong is ginning up indictments. I am saying that Mangum cooked up the identification and Nifong, instead of an immediate arrest, punted to the grand jury.
I wish he'd change it to "Brzezinski".
Leni
He didn't have the defense evidence. He treated it exactly like almost any DA would. The police say there is an ID by the alleged victim, the medical exam shows signs of assault; it's a slam dunk bill. The fact he took it to a grand jury before an arrest was made shows me he isn't sold on Crystal Mangum as the person to base his case on.
Have they shown proof of rape?
Yup, I tend to agree.
When Nifong first heard about the case, he must have thought he was handed a gift on a silver platter: a rape of a local black woman by some out-of-control Duke frat jocks. He saw the SANE report and photographs of injuries, and was assured by the police detectives that they believed the woman.
So he went public with it big-time, thinking the election is now going to be a cakewalk, as he will appear to be aggressively standing up for the ordinary black folks of Durham.
Only he ended up getting ahead of himself. The more one looks into the facts, the shakier her story looks. And he is caught off-guard by the DNA test results. (Note that instead of waiting for a first round of tests to see if she had ANY foreign DNA on her at all, he goes the very expensive rout of simultaneously ordering that together with 46 DNA suspect tests and putting a rush on the whole thing, in order to get the results in time to use them to add to the evidence to make arrests before the election.)
But the problem is, Nifong's already gotten the community (potential voters) riled up over the case. In fact, they would have been riled up anyway but he has made it much, much worse with all of his 70 interviews and Elliot Ness-like pronouncements that there will be justice for this poor girl.
He cannot, at this point, not bring charges and still have any hope of winning the election. The voters will consider HIM now the racist whitey who is protecting the elite Dukies who think they can get away with anything, even the rape of a local black girl.
He still has enough to get a grand jury to indict with a slam dunk: her statement, the medical evidence and photo IDs if the police detectives can produce them. And taking it to a grand jury is not inappropriate in order to get arrests for such a serious crime, and helps to spread the responsibility slightly to the GJ as well.
He knows that at trial the case is a loser. But that will be after the election, and there is a very important point here: In Nifong's mind, there needs to be a trial with lots of publicity on every bit of evidence, hammered into people's heads every night on the news, because that is the only hope that the black community in Durham will ever concede that this girl made the whole thing up. Yes, technically Nifong will be seen as "losing" the trial, but being seen by his constituents as losing while trying to support the girl who is later seen by nearly everyone as a liar is a better choice than being seen by his constituents as a racist whitey who squelched charges in order to protect elite Dukies who got away with rape.
A couple of comments about others' comments.
No need to feel sorry for Duke. They have a good school, but a nightmare social campus.
They are at odds with the town and the state their school is located in. Their students are superior and dismissive of pretty much everybody and everything, including each other. Their basic education program is aimed directly at correcting the notion that anybody, any group or any nation has anything admirable about them. They hate power, prosperity and faith. They have empathy for the victims of the world, but they don't like them either, they are just less dismissive of their cultures and beliefs.
The school projects this hostility into a sort of rabid hyperactivity at basketball games, achieving a reputation as having lots of "fan excitement." If you have ever been to a game as a fan of another team and had cups of piss and vomit thrown at you along with four-letter vulgarities for your Mom and your Wife you will feel a little of the energy that leads to the community's distaste for these lacrosse athletes, even though most would acknowledge that the athletes are apparently innocent.
Anyone who was at Duke more than 30 years ago or so may have a hard time recognizing this picture. It is difficult even for former students who think they know their school well to recognize the depths of change that have overcome modern college campuses, but especially top liberal arts campuses.
I've talked to hundreds of parents about their child's top college choices and almost none face up to the reality of the community their child is entering. They know about the drugs. (They think their child is past that threat.)They know about the sex (They think their child can handle that.) They don't really believe the incredible hostility toward mothers. (They are proud that their daughters are looking forward to a career of distinction. They don't get the fact that if you send a daughter to Duke or Yale your chance of ever seeing a grandchild recedes to near zero.) They know nothing of the hellish pressure to goof around with edgy lifestyles. (Their children are straight, strong-minded and independent. Abortion, serious psychiatric disorders, crime, suicide and fatal accidents are things that happen to other kids without good upbringing.) They have never seen more than a few homosexuals in one place at one time. (Tolerance seems good to the parents. They can't imagine an entire dorm of women 80% of whom are trying sex with other women to see if they "like it.")
Most of all parents can't imagine the direct threats to men from womyn's groups. (There is no reason for a woman to complain about their nice boys.) They have no idea how many men are forced off campus, derided or silenced by a core of feminist faculty, students and cowed "counselors" and administrators.
The parents don't understand that "multiculturalism" sometimes means that they are sending their sons to school with violent felons who have no hope of competing in the classroom, but who can compete just fine with intimidation in the hallways and promiscuity in the bedroom.
The most fascinating parts about this sad Durham drama are the interviews with current Duke students, trying desperately to stay on the good side of the multicultural commissars all around them at their school.
Be sorry for the boys if they are innocent. Be sorry for the poor, drunken, life-out-of-control stripper/student/mother. Be sorry for the town that has no solutions to serious problems. There is no reason to feel sorry for the institution.
Thoughts have been expressed that this may be one reason why this case is being prosecuted; the standard for proof in a civil suit is much lower and according to news reports, the defendants' parents are very rich. Also, you can bet that Duke itself (not a poor institution) will be targeted for both owning the lacrosse house and not suprevising the conduct of the lax players who lived in it.
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