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Lycian Influence To The Indian Cave Temples
The Guide to the Architecture of the Indian Subcontinent ^ | spring of 2000 | Takeo Kamiya

Posted on 07/11/2005 10:37:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

There are caves and sarcophagi with pointed arches in Lycia, moreover carved as if they were wooden structures. Many of them were made in the 4th century B.C. As to India, the first cave temples appeared in the middle of the 3rd century B.C. They are the caves at Barabar and Nagarjuni Hills built for Ajivikas by King Ashoka. If there is no connection between the two sites located so far apart, it might be considered only a strange coincidence. However, there exists historical evidence of the eastern expedition by Alexander the Great of Macedonia (reign 336 B.C. - 323 B.C.), in the latter half of the 4th century B.C.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: alexander; anatolia; archaeology; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; greece; history; india; lukka; lycia; lycian; lycians; macedonia
Interesting, although I didn't much like his remarks about the Carians.

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1 posted on 07/11/2005 10:37:22 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
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To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; StayAt HomeMother; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; asp1; ...
Please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

2 posted on 07/11/2005 10:38:20 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: Babu

whoops, missed ya.

3 posted on 07/11/2005 10:38:52 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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Possibly a reprise of an FR topic, I didn't check. Shame on me.
Anatolian Roots Seen for Indo-Europe Language Tree
Nov 26 2003 2:40PM

Ratthing version
Indo-European languages, which include Greek, Latin, English and Sanskrit among many others, originated thousands of years ago but their roots have been hotly debated by experts. One theory is that nomadic Kurgan horsemen from the steppes of Asia started the spread of Indo-European languages about 6,000 years ago during their conquest of Europe and the Near East. But other experts believe it started in Anatolia, now in Turkey, and expanded with the spread of agriculture... David Searls of the Bioinformatics Division of GlaxoSmithKline Pharmaceuticals said Gray and Atkinson calibrated and cross-validated branchings of the language tree against known historical events.

4 posted on 07/11/2005 10:42:02 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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more about Ashoka:

The Edicts of King Ashoka
Colorado State University Computer Science Department
1993 | An English Rendering by Ven. S. Dhammika
Posted on 07/18/2004 7:46:23 AM PDT by SunkenCiv

medieval India:

Mystery of Delhi's Iron Pillar unraveled
Press Trust of India | Sunday, July 21, 2002 | Editorial Staff
Posted on 07/21/2002 1:15:49 PM PDT by vannrox

5 posted on 07/11/2005 10:49:26 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: SunkenCiv


6 posted on 07/12/2005 6:36:56 AM PDT by ken21 (it takes a village to brainwash your child + to steal your property! /s)
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To: SunkenCiv

Huh, I believe both of these. The language came from the east to Turkey and then was spread across Europe by the farmers who were displaced by the Black Sea flood in 5700BC.

7 posted on 07/12/2005 6:42:41 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Blam: Take a compass and put it at the base of the Ural mountains and draw a big circle. Then look at the Indo-European language distribution from China to Europe, India, and Iran, that seems to be the nexus.

There may have been a spreading of agriculture from the Black Sea event but it wasn't Indo-European.

By the ways how did you make out with the storm?

8 posted on 07/12/2005 11:55:28 AM PDT by Little Bill (A 37%'r, a Red Spot on a Blue State, rats are evil.)
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To: Little Bill

Very lightly affected. TS Cindy the previous week was worse.

9 posted on 07/12/2005 2:03:41 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

You're still with us, that is good. I have to visit my communist sister in Fort Myers, FL, and was thinking of decanting in Ocean View, MS. If you ain't blown away they ain't.

10 posted on 07/12/2005 2:41:20 PM PDT by Little Bill (A 37%'r, a Red Spot on a Blue State, rats are evil.)
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To: SunkenCiv

There is a lot of undiluted Greek in our daily spoken language and not just English but understood by any street urchin in Europe. There is a term for phrases that are converted by sound from the original language to another using words that sound alike more or less but have entirely different meanings. The source language could be Arabic, French, Russian, or any other language we have run into in our worldquests. I don't have an example at hand outside of secret society cant, but some of our catch phrases are of that type. Others are quick words that are considered improper by English teachers, but which are universal and very ancient. One of the latter terms is the phrase word 'okay'. Look in the dictionary and you will find an example of extremely unschooled definitions. Read Euclid, and Lo!, there it is. Another is 'the hoi polloi', which is Greek of course, but which is incorrect since 'hoi' is 'the', so we are saying 'the the'.

11 posted on 07/12/2005 2:52:09 PM PDT by RightWhale (withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty)
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To: RightWhale

Thanks. "Hoi Polloi" sounds high-fallutin', and yet it means "common people".

12 posted on 07/12/2005 9:46:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: blam
IMV, Indo-European languages arrived much later than that -- still very long ago -- and their most recent (still ancient) wellspring was Central Asia. And of course, I'm of the view that everyone has always come from elsewhere. As Ashleigh Brilliant once wrote, "Elsewhere has always been one of my favorite places."
13 posted on 07/12/2005 9:51:21 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: ken21

My pleasure.

14 posted on 07/12/2005 9:53:03 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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Lycian is listed as "Indo-Hittite" on this page:

But not shown on the "Indo-Hittite" page:

15 posted on 07/12/2005 10:25:15 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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Money talks: Ancient coins refute myths
The Times of India
SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 02, 2003 01:34:12 AM
Posted on 02/02/2003 4:14:29 PM PST by vannrox

Ancient King's Legendary Gold

The Argonaut Epos and Bronze Age Economic History
Economics Department, City College of New York
Revised May 14, 1999 | Morris Silver
Posted on 08/25/2004 10:30:51 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

"In the Iliad (6.168-9) there is a reference to signs written on a folded tablet that was carried from Greece to Lycia by Bellerophon. The similarity between Bellerophon's tablet and the folded wooden writing-tablet found in a Bronze Age shipwreck at Ulu Burun off the coast of Turkey has been noted. Bronze hinges with traces of burned wood were found together with Linear B tablets in both Pylos and Knossos. In opposition to the prevailing view, Shear (1998) points out that these hinges are neither sufficiently numerous nor sufficiently large to have come from boxes for storing the tablets."

16 posted on 07/12/2005 10:47:03 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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Web Archive version of a map of Mitanni.
Mitra, Christmass and Pir Shaliyar Ceremony: The Mit(h)ra Empire
Persia Tour
Google cached version
The state religious authorities in the Medes empire were Moghs the worshippers of Mit(h)ra. Mit(h)ra (from Mith/Mit light + ra subjective form) was god of light and friendship (see. But Mit(h)ra was worshipped centuries before the Medes. Last century excavations in Iraq Nuzi cite (nar Kirkuk) has brought into surface the Indo-Hurrian Mitanni empire. The Mitanni kings who were speakers of an Indo-Iranian language ruled over the mainly Hurrian population of the region around 3500 years ago, a millennium before the Medes. Mitannis were worshipper of Mit(h)ra, Varuna and Indra according to the documents survived from their pacts. The lost capital of Mitanni was wasukani which is equal to bash-kani in Modern Kurdish (good water source).

Mitanni itself is a Hurrian derived name (Mit + anni). Linguistic research has shown that Hurrian is a dialect closely related to the south-caucasian languages like Georgian. In Hurrian Mesranni is used to refer to the country of Egypt (Mesr + anni). So Mitanni in Hurrian has the meaning of land of Mit. The Indian cousins of Mitannis who immigrated to India and Indus valley called their land after their god Ind(-ra) and the Mitanni called their empire Mit-anni - The empire of Mit(-ra) - referring to their god Mit(h)ra . This was a common practice among the population of the middle east to name their land after their gods. In Mesopotamian religion, city god of Ashur and national god of Assyria was ashur (also Assur) and the capital of Assyria was Ashur. The Mitanni Mit(h)ra worshippers can further be traced as the ancestors of the Medes empire in the middle East.

The sophisticated and complex empire of the Medes did not come out of nothing. The Mit(h)raism religion of both is one evidence. But another link exists between the two empires of Mittani and Medes. Mitanni, after it was defeated and incorporated into neighbouring empires, was called hangalbat by Simitic speakers. The Medes called their own capital He(n)gmetani (or Ekbatan) surviving as the present Hamedan. The first time the city is mentioned in historic documents is in inscriptions left from Tiglat Palser I (1100 BC) at its hight of civilisation. The city is called amedane. In Old Persian Achaemenian inscriptions, it is mentioned as hegmatan, but some think it was pronounced as hengmatan. Herudut has documented it as Egbatan.

Iranologists attempt to find an old Persian meaning for the capital of Medes (as the place of gathering) faces problem in analysing the oldest term for Hamedan "amedane" preserved by the Assyrian inscriptions. It also obscures the historic fact that the matani in he(n)gmatani and metanni can refer to the same historic entity, and so does the -bat- in Ek-bat-an and Hang-al-bat. Under a non-Persian perspective the etymology of the name can be traced back to Hang+Mitanni (the place/house of Medes/Mitanni), a composite noun with Hurrian part. The conjecture that the etymology of Hamedan is derived from an Old Persian verb is wrong and has led to many false assumptions regarding the origin of Kurds and Iranians. A whole system of thought and theories have been built on this false assumption that needs to be reconsidered under recent findings about Mitanni-Hurrians.

This mistake was simply caused because the Indo-Hurrian Mitanni empire, their Indo-Iranian gods, the Hurrian subjects and the structure, vocabulary and word formation rules of Hurrian, have not been discovered until the middle of last century. The existence of linguistic and religious links between Medes and Mitanni empires provide the missing link in the history of Hamedan and the region, the origin of Kurdish and the evolution of Indo-Iranian languages. The consequence of such a minimalist approach to Kurdish history and historical linguistics is far-reaching and beyond the scope of this short article.
On Kurdistan and Israel Alliance
by Goran Nowicki
April 5, 2004
Mitanni was divided between the Hittite and Assyrians later in the 13th Century BC and 5 centuries later the Media of Medes was resurrected which put an end to the rule of Assyrian empire later.
During a trip to the main library to pick up a copy of Roux' Ancient Iraq I also picked up Bierling's Giving Goliath His Due and a book about Urartu. According to the last book (1969), the earliest literary reference to Urartu is from 13th c Assyria.
In inscriptions of the Assyrian King Shalmaneser I (1280-1261 B.C.) we find the first occurrence of the term Uruatri... eight countries, collectively referred to as Uruatri, situated in a mountainous region to the southeast of Lake Van... the Assyrian name of Uruatri had no ethnic significance... (perhaps meaning 'the mountainous country')... In Assyrian inscriptions of the 11th century B.C., we again find the term Uruatri, and from the second quarter of the 9th century, in the reign of Ashurnasirpal II (883-859 B.C.), it is of common occurrence, in the form Urartu, being used concurrently with the name of Nairi... (Boris B. Piotrovsky, Urartu pp 43-45)

Assyrian-Akkadian King List
(after Courville)
Shalmaneser I 1272-1243 77
Tukulti-Urta I 1242-1206 78
In this copy the author's name is corrected in pencil to Piotrovskii. Translator is James Hogarth.
In clothing and equipment the Urartians differed from the Assyrians and showed close affinities with the Hurrians and Hittites. An example of this is the crested helmet, which came into use in Assyria only in the mid-8th century B.C., having been taken over from the Urartians. (p 48) In the 9th century B.C. Urartian military equipment had been similar to that of the Hurrian tribes and quite different from that of the Assyrians; but by the reign of Argishti... Assyrian equipment... had become the regular wear of the Urartian army. Similarly the culture and the way of life of the ruling class of the Kingdom of Van were deeply imbued with Assyrian influence. (p 81)
The Histories
by Herodotus
Book I -- Clio
tr by George Rawlinson
Now, of the above nations the Carians are a race who came into the mainland from the islands. In ancient times they were subjects of king Minos, and went by the name of Leleges, dwelling among the isles, and, so far as I have been able to push my inquiries, never liable to give tribute to any man. They served on board the ships of king Minos whenever he required; and thus, as he was a great conqueror and prospered in his wars, the Carians were in his day the most famous by far of all the nations of the earth. They likewise were the inventors of three things, the use of which was borrowed from them by the Greeks; they were the first to fasten crests on helmets and to put devices on shields, and they also invented handles for shields. In the earlier times shields were without handles, and their wearers managed them by the aid of a leathern thong, by which they were slung round the neck and left shoulder. Long after the time of Minos, the Carians were driven from the islands by the Ionians and Dorians, and so settled upon the mainland. The above is the account which the Cretans give of the Carians: the Carians themselves say very differently. They maintain that they are the aboriginal inhabitants of the part of the mainland where they now dwell, and never had any other name than that which they still bear; and in proof of this they show an ancient temple of Carian Jove in the country of the Mylasians, in which the Mysians and Lydians have the right of worshipping, as brother races to the Carians: for Lydus and Mysus, they say, were brothers of Car. These nations, therefore, have the aforesaid right; but such as are of a different race, even though they have come to use the Carian tongue, are excluded from this temple.

The Caunians, in my judgment, are aboriginals; but by their own account they came from Crete. In their language, either they have approximated to the Carians, or the Carians to them -- on this point I cannot speak with certainty. In their customs, however, they differ greatly from the Carians, and not only so, but from all other men. They think it a most honourable practice for friends or persons of the same age, whether they be men, women, or children, to meet together in large companies, for the purpose of drinking wine. Again, on one occasion they determined that they would no longer make use of the foreign temples which had been long established among them, but would worship their own old ancestral gods alone. Then their whole youth took arms, and striking the air with their spears, marched to the Calyndic frontier, declaring that they were driving out the foreign gods.

17 posted on 07/21/2005 10:21:57 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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Web Archive version of a map of Mitanni (which didn't come out right in the previous post).
18 posted on 07/21/2005 10:24:57 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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19 posted on 06/25/2008 7:15:00 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ( updated Friday, May 30, 2008)
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20 posted on 09/30/2013 8:14:55 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's no coincidence that some "conservatives" echo the hard left.)
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